0000506: Artefacts when painting with normals

Notes
(0001445) digman (reporter) 2012-04-30 16:31 edited on: 2012-04-30 16:35	This problem looks like an old problem that 3DCoat has with elongated polygons that are non-planar. Take the default creature and in PPP mode ( no subdivision) and use the alpha that is next to the pyramid alpha. Paint a large area around the thigh/hip area of the creature and you will notice quite a bit of distortion in normal map. Most your artifacts in your model are in slightly elongated polygons that maybe cross more than one axis plane. Internally I think 3DCoat trianlates PPP mesh but still the problems seem to effect the models. Andrew would have to confirm this though. Now these are just guesses, though I know in Version 2, Andrew said elongated polygons caused problems. Taros, you are a professional so, the above is mentioned not because of a incorrect model but just to give more information to solving the problem. The information I given is to the best of my knowledge but Andrew you can correct any information and I will note it...

(0001446) Taros (administrator) 2012-05-05 12:30 edited on: 2012-05-05 12:33	Thank you digman. :) I've tried a workaround by sculpting in microvertex mode. I imported my ppp model there and sculpted the normalmap information. After this step I exported the normal map information and used this texture for the per pixel painting. All this worked well. However. A solution for a clean normalmap painting in ppp mode would be great. Digman: I will check the tip about the polygons. I keep this issue open for now.

(0001525) Andrew (administrator) 2012-07-23 17:13	Generally such problem will not appear if you will paint not too deep layer. PPP works well for small frequent details, but badly for smooth deep details. Just know it and use it for corresponding purpose. I hope some day it will be improved.

(0001526) Taros (administrator) 2012-07-24 07:02	@Andrew: Could you explain it a little bit more, please. What do you mean: "Not paint in deep layer." ? Which way is the best to avoid seams when painting with normal maps in pp mode? Give us a hint please.

(0001527) artman (reporter) 2012-07-24 07:43 edited on: 2012-07-24 07:47	He means you must not use normal maps to "Sculpt",meaning not to add large deep indents like you did in your attachment. It is to be used to add high frequency details like skin pores,rock cracks,ect.... I recommend to import your model in microvertex subdivided(2x/4x). Do your large details in Tweak room with Draw brush then export a normal map for lowpoly from texture menu. You can then load that normal map in PPP and keep painting . It is not more work for you. With small surface details problem with seams is highly reduced,unless you zoom very close to seam with camera;it is the nature of Tangent space nmmaps it cannot be avoided. Object space nm is much more forgiving(but it is to be used only with static objects as it is not meant to be deformed,so it is good for environement and objects ,not characters) Shader used in game engine is also important,some shaders will make TS nmaps seams much more apparent.

(0001528) Andrew (administrator) 2012-07-24 07:45	If you will take brush of big radius and try to paint in PPP you will see edges of faces - this is problem. But if you will paint frequent details with noisy brush or small radius brush - all will work well there. Generally I hope to resolve the problem until V4.

(0001540) Taros (administrator) 2012-07-27 11:07	@Andrew: This would be great. @artman: Thank you.

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Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2012-04-30 15:30	Taros	New Issue
2012-04-30 15:30	Taros	Status	new => assigned
2012-04-30 15:30	Taros	Assigned To	=> Andrew
2012-04-30 15:30	Taros	File Added: 3dc_normalartefacts01.jpg
2012-04-30 16:31	digman	Note Added: 0001445
2012-04-30 16:32	digman	Note Edited: 0001445	View Revisions
2012-04-30 16:35	digman	Note Edited: 0001445	View Revisions
2012-05-05 12:30	Taros	Note Added: 0001446
2012-05-05 12:31	Taros	Note Edited: 0001446	View Revisions
2012-05-05 12:31	Taros	Note Edited: 0001446	View Revisions
2012-05-05 12:33	Taros	Note Edited: 0001446	View Revisions
2012-07-23 17:13	Andrew	Note Added: 0001525
2012-07-24 07:02	Taros	Note Added: 0001526
2012-07-24 07:43	artman	Note Added: 0001527
2012-07-24 07:44	artman	Note Edited: 0001527	View Revisions
2012-07-24 07:45	artman	Note Edited: 0001527	View Revisions
2012-07-24 07:45	Andrew	Note Added: 0001528
2012-07-24 07:47	artman	Note Edited: 0001527	View Revisions
2012-07-27 11:07	Taros	Note Added: 0001540

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