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3D-Coat 3.7 updates thread


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#1161 carlosan

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:36 AM

Whit this new features... can I edit the curve of the brush shape ? ty

#1162 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 11:51 AM

Because if the drag & drop doesn't get to a new location it simply takes that for a "remove from panel". You can have the same effect when d&dping outside the quick access panel (just move your element to overlap a little bit the access panel title you'll see). And I'm sure you've experienced this issue if you use java softwares, I often have to use my mouse as java doesn't detect the tablet clicks because of the microshakes. It happens to me all the time, java doesn't like tablets much ^^.

BTW Andrew, is there an ETA on removeclay brush finalization ? I really like this brush but it gives unexpected results with symmetry and the way it works (random chunk removal)

I have no ETA, but I really want to make it clean, so if you have way to reproduce problems - drop me mail.

#1163 polyxo

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 02:44 PM

Quick Test -


btw. the darker tooltip-background looks much better too.
Somewhat better text-formating would help the tooltips as well.

#1164 artman

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 03:35 PM

The issue is showing with a simple sphere and symmetry. It's not working with symmetry. And if you look how it works, it inputs many time per sec, creating an "hammering" effect. Deactivating grow on motion doesn't help there.

I remember when Andrew talked about implementing what he called then "hypersmooth" feature
and from what I understand RemoveClay brush is somehow the extension of that idea.
Beat,my question is:do we really need this?
Personnaly when i want to crush topology on dense meshes I use Reduce brush along with Smooth brush ,it works fantastic.
It really feels like melting the clay back to soft state.There are maybe pitfalls to this method but I don't see/experience any.

On another topic:
Andrew,do you think you could replace volume degradation in multires by some sort of fast surface decimation algorythm instead.
Reason for this is that volume degradation completly destroy thin areas and makes multires unusable for clothes,fingers.ears ect...
Of course degrading is faster than decimation but I thought maybe you could come up with a new kind of fast decimation to replace it.
(I don't think a lot of users are currently using multires and its a shame because weight projection is very very good)
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#1165 artman

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Posted 09 June 2012 - 03:45 PM

we could probably use it to crunch matter back to a soft plane, with curved hardsurface it's a very handy tool: all the little bumps due to poles in the wire are melted away.

For this i use Reduce along with Tangentsmooth set to 100%. It works great.Tangentsmooth is a really powerful tool.(thanx to Raul)
I will probaly experiment more with RemoveClay in next iterations of the tool to see the difference. :)
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#1166 3DArtist

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:50 AM

On another topic:
Andrew,do you think you could replace volume degradation in multires by some sort of fast surface decimation algorythm instead.
Reason for this is that volume degradation completly destroy thin areas and makes multires unusable for clothes,fingers.ears ect...
Of course degrading is faster than decimation but I thought maybe you could come up with a new kind of fast decimation to replace it.
(I don't think a lot of users are currently using multires and its a shame because weight projection is very very good)


+1
For some reason I can't get the multires to work for me. I click to downgrade a (voxel or surface) layer, and it just flashes to the downgraded version then back to the full res.
Maybe I just need to do a fresh install.

Edit:
I'm using 3.7.12E(CUDA)(DX64)

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#1167 digman

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 03:54 AM

+1
For some reason I can't get the multires to work for me. I click to downgrade a (voxel or surface) layer, and it just flashes to the downgraded version then back to the full res.
Maybe I just need to do a fresh install.


Confirmed on version 3.7.12E win 32 bit non cuda....

#1168 chris_solo

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 02:55 PM

Andrew, :)
thank you for this new interface and also on work that was done on the brushes! much innovation in this version! :brush:

#1169 TimmyZDesign

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 09:53 PM

My favorite thing about the new interface is the ability to scroll through the tools in the tool panel on the left. You simply click anywhere on the tool panel, flick it upwards, and it scrolls through the tools! This is a lot like scrolling through panels in Zbrush, and somewhat similar to scrolling through menus on an iPhone.
I like this because I never use keyboard shortcuts. I don't use keyboard shortcuts because I use a Cintiq (I have set all of the buttons on my Cintiq to operate like the keyboard shortcuts). The ability to scroll through the tools and select them from the tool panel is very fast and easy to use for me. Big thanks to Andrew for making this possible!
Also, I was still hoping that someday we will be able to drag panels outside of the main 3D-Coat window and put them on another display (I use two displays and being able to do this would be very useful). I currently use Photoshop this way. I keep only my canvas on the Cintiq and put most of my panels (layers, settings, etc.) on my second display. This way I have an uncluttered area for painting. Maybe the UI in 3D-Coat could be made to do this as well?
In any case, I really like this new interface! Thanks again!
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#1170 Taros

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:53 AM

+1
For some reason I can't get the multires to work for me. I click to downgrade a (voxel or surface) layer, and it just flashes to the downgraded version then back to the full res.
Maybe I just need to do a fresh install.

Edit:
I'm using 3.7.12E(CUDA)(DX64)

I hope you post such issues into mantis too. :) Thank you.

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#1171 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 02:49 PM

Mac & Linux buids updated to 3.7.12E

#1172 jamie

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 03:37 PM

Hi,
Great to get hands on the new Linux build, trying out the UV path tool for the first time. Looks like a very useful addition to the UV tools.
Is there a way to preview the path before adding a new point, similar to 'Mark Seams' with shift held down?
Also, is it possible to create closed paths? I can't figure out how to connect back to the first point.

Cheers,

Jamie

P.S. New interface looks great.

#1173 Polygoon

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:18 PM

Yes, Me too! I really like the new look and the Quick menu (space) is very nice. New path tool looks interesting, will give that a whirl tomorrow. Tiling support is great also.

Thanks!

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#1174 polyxo

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 04:42 PM

trying out the UV path tool for the first time. Looks like a very useful addition to the UV tools.
Is there a way to preview the path before adding a new point, similar to 'Mark Seams' with shift held down?

There should be a Preview as soon as you have two points or more. If you don't there's something wrong.
You can also drag each point around and see the solution update.

Also, is it possible to create closed paths? I can't figure out how to connect back to the first point.

Try clicking one face away from your target. Then drag the new point to the target.vertex. Press Enter.

#1175 michalis

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 08:45 PM

The good news (for mac users as well) is that the performance of the tools is greatly improved!
Congratulations Andrew, an achievement!
However, performance and behavior are two different things. I still much prefer the simplicity and behavior of Voxel mode. An absence of crease tool there? Not really. A sharp mask on build tool, inverse mode, is just fine for me. It's in voxels mode though. Now, under surface mode, the default draw tool, interpolated a bit, using the same sharp mask-brush could be just fine, if a pinch parameter was there.

Things can be very simple sometimes, tools have to be as few as possible and stay simple. A few parameters can do the job.
Let's talk about zbrush. Lot of brushes there but for one reason mostly. To demonstrate how they work and be able to personalize 3-4. More than enough.
Sculptris is the opposite case but here we have an almost talented digital sculptor who happens to be the dev. The result is 6-8 well tuned brushes. More than enough again.
Blender? Again, well tuned tools by default, almost copying zb or sculptris. Almost well done, but lot of parameters can personalize these tools further.
In 3dc now.

Creese is one very important tool, So. were is it? Only under LC, but I noticed some weird zig zag behavior. It's not related to dynamic tessellation parameters. It shouldn't anyway.
Another one, where is the scroll bar on the right? Only up and down? This isn't a tablet friendly UI, you know.

Of course all these must have been discussed among PC users. But I am a mac user. So, it's my turn to talk about these.

The icons of the tools aren't great. It's not a stylish issue at all, images are fine. But, when someone is searching for the move tool... com on guys, what this image means? It's the grab tool, right? A tool has to look exactly the same in all apps.

Not good critics on new 3dc UI either, to have to scroll everytime to search for a tool isn't useful. Spacebar menu is my best choice, considering tools. Scroll bar is missing, the only friendly to tablet users.

In general, 3dcoat UI isn't friendly to tablets, don't expect an artist to work with mouse only. Expect him to work with tablet only.
Not many seem to like the zbrush UI, but how friendly this UI is to tablets? A good question. IMO, it is.
MACOSX,
3DC bug reports here:
http://www.3d-coat.com/mantis

#1176 artman

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:11 PM

The icons of the tools aren't great. It's not a stylish issue at all, images are fine. But, when someone is searching for the move tool... com on guys, what this image means? It's the grab tool, right? A tool has to look exactly the same in all apps.

Which tools is wrong beside Move tool?.
Only Move tool is weird.

Scroll bar is missing, the only friendly to tablet users.

Scroll bar is anywhere you click,you jus have to click and drag.
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"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#1177 michalis

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 09:43 PM

Scroll bar is anywhere you click,you jus have to click and drag.

Right, lol, apologies. I didn't know.
Using 4-5 apps the same time... :blush:

Which tools is wrong beside Move tool?.
Only Move tool is weird.


Er... all of them.
They all show almost the same icon. For instance, pinch tool, what does it show? Build and extrude? The same image almost.
Grow and sphere tool? What are these three ... are doing there? Is this an image for the sphere tool? Where is the sphere anyway?
Plane? a good image but describes a flattener tool better. Scrape tool in our case.
Clay. It doesn't look like a clay to me. Looks like grow.

Merge tool... an ear LOL. Instead of searching the word merge, now an ear. Very helpful. Hey, it isn't helpful at all.

etc etc.

In general, words are more helpful.
Images are fine when you have 10 tools only, as in sculptris case.
In zbrush, a confusion, having sometimes 6 tools sharing the same image. All flatteners for instance. How helpful is this? It's the icon of a group I guess. OK.

@Beat, you made my day. For a moment I thought that I couldn't have just words instead of icons. Thank you! This is what I gonna use.


But, but, the most important, you didn't answer my question on the behavior of some tools. I'll keep begging Andrew for a "pinch" parameter on the tool's properties bar.
MACOSX,
3DC bug reports here:
http://www.3d-coat.com/mantis

#1178 LJB

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:38 PM

No it's understandable. However put. We'll look closer at the function of each tool eh. We need to make work right.

Edited by LJB, 11 June 2012 - 10:40 PM.

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#1179 michalis

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 10:52 PM

IMO, icons are capable to indicate rather "tool groups" than specific functions.
LJB, Beat, this is a very difficult job. I did try and the results weren't convincing.
Sculptris, nine only tools... IMO, icons are great but these are only nine tools.
However, see how grab, rotate, scale, are icons of a completely different style. Clever.

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#1180 michalis

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:06 PM

Of course, now we have a base to start.
IMO, we should avoid the sphere based icon for some tools like transform, grab, merge etc.
For the merge tool, something like this? After all it's a boolean operation

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MACOSX,
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