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3D-Coat 3.7 updates thread


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#921 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:27 AM

What brush used there?

#922 Zeddicus

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:11 AM

Is it just me or has the Interpolate option stopped working in the Voxel room (3.7.11)?

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#923 haikalle

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 12:12 PM

Now a little indication: the bump aspect is greatly diminished with some brushes if you're using a mouse, I suspect many users here using tablet having more issue due to the fact the sampling in 3dcoat is not tablet friendly.
Deactivate pressure depth and you've got much cleaner edges.


Confirmed that dotting is quite bad when using tablet. Using mouse the results were much better. I tested it with default sphere that was resampled to 4mil triangles.

#924 artman

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 03:44 PM

Brushing is dramatically more laggy on my side in 3.7.11 compared to 3.7.10A when using SF Clay for example.(DXCuda64)

My impression about the whole step/dotting/bump issue is that I think problem is not in brushes behavior but in brushes performance..
I mean I think that its the performance that is interrupting the behavior,if you understand what I mean.
I think the brushes are trigerring too much operations,especially when pen pressure is activated,you need to find a way to simplify operations while keeping effects(even if its probably very hard to find ways to do it)
...again,it is just an impression,maybe it is brush behavior that is wrong but I don't think so.


Sorry,I cant make decent testing Im really,really busy those days.

(btw LC brushes are missing Invert tool action checkbox)


Congratulation on all latest improvements (color spec,emissive and the great new Uv seams marking tools)
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#925 digman

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 04:05 PM

I have not tested yet but I have noticed a bug in the brush settings.
Paint with dabs is supposed to be used in conjunction with spacing.
You select paint with dabs, then set your spacing (10%) but when you move your cursor over the object paint with dabs becomes deselected.
This has been happening in the last few beta versions I know of. Whether this effects the brush strokes, I do not know...

I was going to post a bug report but since Andrew is working on the brush strokes, I thought I put it here...

Edit:
Same bug exist in 3.7.11

Did a little testing with a wacom tablet...

Agree with the above statements, the dot effect is worse and your strokes skip if you brush a faster stroke. This problem reminds me of the dab effect you would get in some 2D paint programs years ago. If you brushed quickly it would leave a trail of circles. In 3DCoat we get that bumpy effect...

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  • Selection_015.png


#926 digman

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 05:18 PM

Brushing is dramatically more laggy on my side in 3.7.11 compared to 3.7.10A when using SF Clay for example.(DXCuda64)

My impression about the whole step/dotting/bump issue is that I think problem is not in brushes behavior but in brushes performance..
I mean I think that its the performance that is interrupting the behavior,if you understand what I mean.
I think the brushes are trigerring too much operations,especially when pen pressure is activated,you need to find a way to simplify operations while keeping effects(even if its probably very hard to find ways to do it)
...again,it is just an impression,maybe it is brush behavior that is wrong but I don't think so.


Sorry,I cant make decent testing Im really,really busy those days.

(btw LC brushes are missing Invert tool action checkbox)


Congratulation on all latest improvements (color spec,emissive and the great new Uv seams marking tools)


"especially when pen pressure is activated" This is very true. The first brush which is both depth and radius produces the worse dotting/bump effect. Two operations going on here. If you use the second brush in the e-panel as it only effects depth and not radius your brush strokes are a lot smoother. So maybe a link between how 3DCoat reads the tablet's pen pressure in laying down the dabs with more than one operation being involved. Only a thought...

Anyway, thanks Andrew for working on making brush strokes better...

#927 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:20 PM

Please please tell name of brush when you are telling about problem. There iis list of brushes that should become better:

in surface mode:

Draw
Flattern
Clay
Mud
Mud2

Live Clay
Extrude Clay
Tube Clay

On my tests that brushes has become very accurate and even in comparison to bumpy previous ones. I can't believe that things got worse for that brushes. But possibly I missed something with other brushes.

The essence of change is that spacing is now very even there and all intermediate points are snapped to the surface. Intersection of the brush with edge improved too.
I will work over other brushes too. If you found problem with brush just tell name of brush and provide video or screenshot or description.

#928 carlosan

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 06:56 PM

They both work fine for me (3.7.10A). Perhaps if you describe the steps you're doing, someone will be better equipped to help you with your problem.


Big Mesh. Import a large mesh (up to 16 M). This function requires two meshes; a low-poly reference mesh and a high poly mesh. Both should have the same non overlapped UVset. First import the low-poly mesh into scene using the usual import dialog, then load the high poly mesh using this option.

testing 3.7.11 and still nothing, ty any help

im importing in paint room trying ppp or microvertex.


//edit
voxel room primitive sphere
switch to surface and brush using liveclay and draw
increase resolution, the painted surface using liveclay dissapear
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#929 spacepainter

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 07:51 PM

Clay is a bit wrinkly.handBetaClay.jpg
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#930 Elizeusz

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:32 PM

Draw brush in surface mode looks like this

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  • draw.jpg


#931 artman

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:32 PM

Draw
Flattern
Clay
Mud
Mud2

Those 5 brushes are at least 3 times slower in 3.7.11 on my side than in 3.7.10A
Its like the brushes are "coughing" when I stroke.I dont have time to make screencapture ,
(screenshot would not help,you need to see speed in movement ...I will try when I come back home tomorow)
What is strange is it is written 340 fps when stroking using SF Clay or Mud2 in 3.7.11 but it is at least 3 time slower than in 3.7.10A where i get only 80-100 fps.
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#932 digman

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:33 PM

Please please tell name of brush when you are telling about problem. There iis list of brushes that should become better:

in surface mode:

Draw
Flattern
Clay
Mud
Mud2

Live Clay
Extrude Clay
Tube Clay

On my tests that brushes has become very accurate and even in comparison to bumpy previous ones. I can't believe that things got worse for that brushes. But possibly I missed something with other brushes.

The essence of change is that spacing is now very even there and all intermediate points are snapped to the surface. Intersection of the brush with edge improved too.
I will work over other brushes too. If you found problem with brush just tell name of brush and provide video or screenshot or description.


OK, a report on the Draw Brush in surface mode remove stretching enabled.
I million polygon sphere
First brush in E-Panel (depth and radius)
depth 25, radius 15 falloff 16
last alpha on the right top row.
Intuos 3 tablet

The draw brush is smoother at a medium brushing speed but now it is dotting at a slower speed. Just the reverse of what was happening.
You are heading the right direction as the brush is smoother and more even in it's stroke but of course the dotting at a slow stroke speed will need to be address. The stroke is very touchy too at the start and end of a stroke losing some it's smoothness, (not shown in this picture.). This could be related to the speed of the start and end of your stroke.

Picture shows two strokes for comparison.
Stroke on the left---- medium speed
Stroke on the right--- slow speed

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  • draw brush.jpg


#933 Elizeusz

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 09:39 PM

Absolute , gum and expand

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  • draw.jpg


#934 digman

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 10:06 PM

@digman, those bumps are related to the wire, I noticed them too (this is what i was trying to show in the latest gif with creaseclay, but the banding was too high to see anything).
Look in wiremode, when there's a poke is in my experience where the density of the wiref is altered. Don't know why though, and again, most of those complaining are using wacom tablets intuos tech 3-4 based.


Yes, I noticed that too. When you use just a mouse the mesh rises more smoothly, Use your tablet and the mesh altering is popping as it rises and then I notice the mesh sinks a little bit behind the movement of your brush when using your tablet too in what appears to be an uneven way.
What is funny now is a medium brush speed looks better than a slow one. This is not going to be easy to fix but I think Andrew can do it...
Now, just when I wanted to test more I am having trouble with Windows... :wacko:

We got quite a bit of range of different experiences of the draw brush in the above postings. Whew, I would not like having Andrew's programming job right now, well in fact no programming job I would like... :blink:

#935 digman

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Posted 05 May 2012 - 11:05 PM

Also to consider in the testing is the alpha used.... There is a wide range change in the nature of the stroke depending upon the alpha chosen.
In the picture the top two alphas are user created. I created the very top alpha and Michael Dunnam created the one under that...
The two bottom alphas are default alphas.
The picture is from Linux version 3.7.10A
Draw Brush in surface mode, remove stretching enabled
Same setting for all alphas...
Spacing set to 10%

This does not imply that the brush problems are alpha related. It just shows there are different changes using alphas in the brush strokes..

Attached Thumbnails

  • Alpha.jpg


#936 Javis

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:00 AM

Draw brush in surface mode looks like this

Absolute , gum and expand


It looks like you may have strips turned on for that, have you checked your strips settings?
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#937 simmsimaging

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:17 AM

Thanks for the new UV tools! So far they work well. It took a minute to figure out that it's a bit different in that you need to define the *actual* end point, and then add points "point to point" in between, rather than sketch it out point to point from start to finish, but it works well so far.

Thank you for considering the input and adding this function.

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#938 jdoublej

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:07 AM

I think the new feel of the brushes are good in almost all cases, but I feel the 'Rapid' brush needs to be reset to how it worked in previous releases of 3d coat. Before I would love to use this brush, because it had a very 'opaque' effect when sculpting, which is great for evening out and asserting the plane of a given surface. Now it builds up too much, and there is a 'transparency' to it that leads to a lumpier sculpt...So, that is my plea actually, I use this brush constantly, so I'd like to have it work as it did in previous releases. I think the 'Draw' brush seems to be a bit more subtle, I'm hoping this brush gets dialed to be more like the 'Standard' brush in zbrush; in this case I want the opposite of what I requested with Rapid; I like the ability to dial the brush to a low intensity, and pull or push without destroying too much surface detail, but at higher intensities, just draw out smooth strokes.

thanks for the updates, and I'll continue working with the new features.

-Josh

#939 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:20 AM

Picture shows two strokes for comparison.
Stroke on the left---- medium speed
Stroke on the right--- slow speed

Maybe dotting related to changing of pressure manual jittering when you move pen slowly?
Does it happen with mouse? I am getting absolutely ideal strokes there... Can't understand.

#940 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:28 AM

Draw
Flattern
Clay
Mud
Mud2

Those 5 brushes are at least 3 times slower in 3.7.11 on my side than in 3.7.10A
Its like the brushes are "coughing" when I stroke.I dont have time to make screencapture ,
(screenshot would not help,you need to see speed in movement ...I will try when I come back home tomorow)
What is strange is it is written 340 fps when stroking using SF Clay or Mud2 in 3.7.11 but it is at least 3 time slower than in 3.7.10A where i get only 80-100 fps.
Intuos4 here.

falling from 300 to 80-100 is not 3 times slower. It is almost the same because no difference in feeling, FPS is still very high. Of course new approach a bit slower because every middle point is snapped, not only end and start but all cores used for that process.




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