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3D-Coat 3.7 updates thread


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#941 artman

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 06:43 AM

falling from 300 to 80-100 is not 3 times slower. It is almost the same because no difference in feeling, FPS is still very high. Of course new approach a bit slower because every middle point is snapped, not only end and start but all cores used for that process.

no,no..you got me wrong 300 fps is in 3.7.11 and its very very slow.
In 3.7.10A i get 80fps and its at least 3 times faster than 3.7.11.
This is why I said it was strange.

Andrew,what tablet are you using in your tests?
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#942 digman

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:27 AM

Maybe dotting related to changing of pressure manual jittering when you move pen slowly?
Does it happen with mouse? I am getting absolutely ideal strokes there... Can't understand.


Yes, of course some manual jittering I think would be in there but I can move as slow in the linux version 3.7.10A and it is not as pronounced. As Beatkitano said the strokes are better, more smoother (medium stroke speed) but something under the hood is still effecting the dabbing of the brush And if you are doing slow detail work, jittering of the dabs would not be good which as been one of the problems with the brushes till now. I can make the jitters less by increasing the depth and a lighter touch as a workaround. To me that says something how 3DCoat is handling the input of pressure from the tablet in applying the dabs.

Does it happen with a mouse, no, that is what we have been saying. mouse strokes are smooth as a mouse has constant input but once you have a brush with depth and radius with your tablet you get the problems. Lock your depth or use the second brush in the e-panel with your tablet and your strokes are very much smoother.

Does the deselection of the paint with dabs in the brush options panel have any negative effect?
I posted this bug a few post ago, unless it is meant to deselect itself...

I will do more testing tommorrow and try to make a few videos as today's testing is first impressions...

#943 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:57 AM

Don't use pait with dabs. It will do stroke bumpy because of nature of this option. It is incompartible with spacing so deselected.

#944 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 07:59 AM

I am using Intous 3. I will post video how strokes look on my side.

#945 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:02 AM

Draw and Clay brushes:

http://screencast.com/t/IqcsXeiqp

1M sphere

#946 digman

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:09 AM

Don't use pait with dabs. It will do stroke bumpy because of nature of this option. It is incompartible with spacing so deselected.


A heads up the tool tip saids to use it, so the tool tip needs to be reworded... Thanks for the information...

#947 artman

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:11 AM

Ok,i tested more and I can get satisfying speed by setting my pen pressure to very soft in Wacom control panel
and using "brush pressure only affect depth" in 3DCoat e-panel.
Most brushes are fast enough like Clay and Draw but Flatenclay is very slow.
500k sphere here.
I still get the the dotting effect even with pressure off if I use Creaseclay for example (see picture)
but it only happens when fast stroking(I guess Creaseclay need to be used more slowly than other brushes)

hope that helps
Untitled-1 copy.jpg
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
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#948 artman

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:19 AM

Draw and Clay brushes:

http://screencast.com/t/IqcsXeiqp

1M sphere

I get speed like you when I do fast stroke but when I do slow stokes it is not as smooth as in your video I feel like a lot of tiny little jumps(the snapping?).

But I cannot go fast like in your video with LC brushes,mostly Flattenclay and Creaseclay.
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
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#949 haikalle

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:23 AM

Andrew. Try those tests with 4mil and 7 mil sphere. And use different brush size. I know that those situations can be very hard to manage for any sculpting
program. In my tests dotting effect is quite easy to see when you increase resolution. Mouse can handle increased resolution much better than my tablet.

#950 haikalle

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:32 AM

Here is an example video with 7mil sphere.



first stroke is with mouse and second is with my wacom bamboo tablet.

#951 TimmyZDesign

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 08:35 AM

Left is pen. Right is mouse.
(I am using Wacom Cintiq 12 WX. Wacom Tablet driver 6.2.0w5)

Attached Thumbnails

  • PenTabletProblem.JPG

Intel Xeon W3570 (4 core @ 3.2GHz) 6 GB RAM
Nvidia Quadro FX 3800 (1GB GPU memory, CUDA, OpenGL)
Windows Vista Professional 64-bit
1st display is Wacom Cintiq 21UX (2nd Gen) (1600 x 1200)
2nd display is ASUS VE245H (1920 x 1080)

#952 kay_Eva

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:30 AM

works perfectly for me

i have quad core / 64 bit / Cuda / Wacom Bamboo

edit: actually if I increase resolution to 8 mil it starts to have that bumpy effect that people are talking about
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#953 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 09:40 AM

I am using latest drivers from Wacom downloads.
Please check how much pressure levels 3DC determined. Try to set valid number. On my side 1023 was determined.
Also, let us discuss say Draw brush and LC with default first brush. Let us find reason of difference. Uncheck spacing and dabs.
There is video how LC works:

http://screencast.com/t/ThgOb1gJnayM

settings:

Posted Image

Default 240k sphere

#954 otsoa

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:20 AM

Ok, here with default settings of LC and surface clay is Ok too. I had set pressure level to 2048.
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#955 haikalle

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 10:49 AM

Here is my tests with 240k sphere. Should be same settings with you Andrew. Only diffrence is that I'm using wacom bamboo. Dotting is there. But
would love to see some other users tests who has bamboo too. kay_Eva are you able to send a video too?? You can use my vimeo account if you want.



Have to say that you have a really smooth strokes. I envy how you can use pen pressure to determine the stroke size.

PS: I'm using 1023 pressure level

#956 LJB

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:34 PM

I wonder if its more an Input packet problem?, Seems heavily effected by Scale of brush radius too even in Voxel tools. Like Artman suggests some tools are far worse than others some are manageable if used slower. Timmy Z Design image spells it out quite profoundly though and Even with my Pressure setting at Low firmness to ensure a consistent full pressure stroke i experience the skipping. See vid all strokes finish at full pressure.



Maybe some kinda curve or averaging needs to be sensibly employed with the sensitivity setting?
Posted Image
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#957 otsoa

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:43 PM

Bamboo Pen test:
http://onirike.free....p/BambooPen.mp4
Intuos 4 test:
http://onirike.free....emp/Intuos4.mp4

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#958 artman

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 03:09 PM

Im using the default 1023 setting(even if it should be 2048),I noticed 1023 always give the best feeling so I always use it.

The little jumps Im talking about when doing slow strokes is EXACTLY what is shown in BeatKitano latest video.

here is Draw brush
375k sphere
Untitled2copy.jpg
here is LC with default setting
375k sphere
Untitled-3copy.jpg
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#959 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:07 PM

Here is my tests with 240k sphere. Should be same settings with you Andrew. Only diffrence is that I'm using wacom bamboo. Dotting is there. But would love to see some other users tests who has bamboo too. kay_Eva are you able to send a video too?? You can use my vimeo account if you want. Have to say that you have a really smooth strokes. I envy how you can use pen pressure to determine the stroke size. PS: I'm using 1023 pressure level

Please check Edit->Preferences->Brush sensitivity. Should be 1

#960 DavidF

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 04:14 PM

All right, I tested it a few moments ago. I am very happy with the new brush... In fact, it solves absolutely the problem I had with it, which was the reason I started this topic in the first place. I continued sculpting a dragon whose skull was too hard to sculpt with the previous brush, because of the flat areas combined with some hanging skin and the bumpinness was too unpredictable. Now, I feel it is just like mudbox (in terms of brushing), and I can do it perfectly!! The amount of control gained with the new brush is great, in every type of brush I tested. I don't want to sound conformist, but I am. I will try to understand what is that others don't like about the upgrade though.
There are two things we must separate in order to nail this. One thing is the irregularities of depth in the stroke, and another one is the dot sample space that occurs specially in a fast stroke. The first one I fell that has been eliminated, since a stroke should never change in depth unless on purpose and it doesn't anymore, and the second one needs to be diminished as much as possible, but it is still posible on fast strokes with high polycount since the processor cant process all the samples necessary along a stroke to eliminate the doting effect (it happens even in 2d programs like Photoshop), but algorithms can be made to diminish it. I believe that pretending that this dotting effect will never occur is asking too much, but it is reasonable to ask that it doesnt happen on SLOW strokes. In every other program I've used the dotting effect can happen on fast strokes over high poly, but the way to do it under those situations is 1: making a slow stroke 2: restroking back without lifting the pen, so the algorithm keeps working over the initial surface depth and doesnt add to the already dotted surface...
I believe we are in a very good spot right now about all this.
There is always, however, room for improvment. I do believe that on big sizes strokes the effect could be a little more predictable. Sometimes it feels as if there was one sphere added next to the other and that altogether they move the surface... but they leave some creased angles in the middle. This effect happens on slow strokes too... I hope this can be improved, since sometimes it is very useful to draw over big - detailed surfaces in order to lift or deepen something in general...

Another thought... what about processors and graphic cards ??? maybe i'm getting good results because of good hardware... What if everybody posts their hardware? I wouldnt expect good result on old hardware...
My hardware:

i7 2600k OC 3.9 ghz
8 gigs or ram
560ti

That's about it. I will keep making tests...




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