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Garagarape sketchbook


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#1 Garagarape

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 10:58 AM

Hi everybody!

I've just started a sculpt with the voxel tools.
That's a first trial. I like to use "Sculptris" too,
but it seems that 3D Coat gives more possibilities.

This horse was made out of primitives such as boxes
and tubes (those you can distort).

Will try to finish it quickly.

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#2 LJB

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 11:15 PM

Hi everybody!

I've just started a sculpt with the voxel tools.
That's a first trial. I like to use "Sculptris" too,
but it seems that 3D Coat gives more possibilities.

This horse was made out of primitives such as boxes
and tubes (those you can distort).

Will try to finish it quickly.


Limbs are quite a bit too long maybe scale them in length around 1/4 - 1/3. each of the peices is looking good but the overall proportions of the amatomy are just not coming together right. Head and neck could probably do with being reduced in scale.

Keep it coming though i can see that you have good use of the tool.
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#3 LJB

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Posted 09 October 2010 - 11:23 PM

Here -

horse_Overlay.png
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#4 Garagarape

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 02:09 AM

BeatKitano, LJB,
Thanks for the crits and the reference pics.
Yes, there may be a problem with the proportions.
In fact, I still don't know if I want it to be a "Quater Horse",
a "Morgan" or something else. Probably have to decide this first :)
I'll try to tweak it a bit with the move tool in the end.
But for now, Breakfirst time!

#5 Garagarape

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Posted 10 October 2010 - 03:59 AM

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Slowly refining shapes...
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#6 Garagarape

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 05:55 PM

Wooohooo! 24402352 tris and the app still works smoothly!
It's a pleasure.
I just wonder if X-normal will swallow all that heavy structure;
Noticed that the AO render was quite different baked in each soft.
May be I just don't know how to tweak 3D Coat baking parameters...
By the way, is it bad to work on "Non Uniform" voxel stuff.
Those red letters down the screen, I wonder if it is important.

Still working on head details:

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#7 artman

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Posted 16 October 2010 - 06:57 PM

Wooohooo! 24402352 tris and the app still works smoothly!
It's a pleasure.
I just wonder if X-normal will swallow all that heavy structure;
Noticed that the AO render was quite different baked in each soft.
May be I just don't know how to tweak 3D Coat baking parameters...
By the way, is it bad to work on "Non Uniform" voxel stuff.
Those red letters down the screen, I wonder if it is important.

Xnormal should eat your 24mi I think...of course you can always use 3DCoat powerful decimation's process
when exporting the voxel topology,its very good at preservation of details.

About non-uniformity of space,Andrew fixed it affecting the brushes so in that aspect of working there should be no problems
...the thing is picmat shaders display wrongly in non-uniform spaces,the more it is the more wrong is the shader display.
On 24 mil voxel layer it could take 2-3 minutes but I recommend using "to global space" function anyway.
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#8 Garagarape

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 04:12 AM

Artman, Thanks for the tips!
I found "To global space" function in the voxtree, that was quite fast
(surely added a few tris, upgraded poor parts or calculated average values between "low" and "high" parts?).
Anyway, thanks. It feels better to work without a warning message :)
I didn't found the decimation tool. Is it something automatic when you're done with retopo
and ask 3D Coat to calculate maps for painting? Or is it "export raw voxel object" in the file menu?
(this one crashed when I tried it, may be this model is too heavy).
I'll try to search a little more today later on.

#9 artman

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 04:31 AM

:rofl:

Artman, Thanks for the tips!
I found "To global space" function in the voxtree, that was quite fast
(surely added a few tris, upgraded poor parts or calculated average values between "low" and "high" parts?).
Anyway, thanks. It feels better to work without a warning message :)
I didn't found the decimation tool. Is it something automatic when you're done with retopo
and ask 3D Coat to calculate maps for painting? Or is it "export raw voxel object" in the file menu?
(this one crashed when I tried it, may be this model is too heavy).
I'll try to search a little more today later on.

Its when exporting from voxtree.
Use 'Export pattern for merge'(even if name is weird) instead of using 'export object'.
You will get asked for decimation at the end of process.
There is problem with scale when using 'export object'.
Its also possible you will run out of memory on export. :(
Because you can display more polys than you can export.
For unknown reasons it seems 3dCoat needs more memory to export than to display(at least,on my side).
I can export 14mil max but i can subdivide up to 20-30 mil in voxel room.
Good luck. :)
Nice horse btw.
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#10 Garagarape

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 07:38 AM

Oh my!
You are right. It ran out of memory with "Export Pattern for merge".
Too bad. I guess there is solutions to that problem.

1) Create all the textures for the low model into 3d-coat
with the "Merge for pixel painting with normal map" option.
But still I'm under the feeling that AO maps are a little poor
compared to those you get with X-normal. I will try to make
tests if possible when the sculpt is done (with a light version?)

2) Cut the horse in different parts like Z-brush users do,
and bake them separately in order to keep details.

Anyway, that's good to have your advices. I learned something today
thanks to you.

#11 artman

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 08:24 AM

Oh my!
You are right. It ran out of memory with "Export Pattern for merge".
Too bad. I guess there is solutions to that problem.

1) Create all the textures for the low model into 3d-coat
with the "Merge for pixel painting with normal map" option.
But still I'm under the feeling that AO maps are a little poor
compared to those you get with X-normal. I will try to make
tests if possible when the sculpt is done (with a light version?)

2) Cut the horse in different parts like Z-brush users do,
and bake them separately in order to keep details.

Anyway, that's good to have your advices. I learned something today
thanks to you.

Ok,you have another option...
Which is using auto-retopo and do strokes on your model to get good mesh for projection.
Then once that is made, you try "merge with Ptex" from retopo menu .
You then select something like 13 million polys.
The thing is, those 13mil polys will be enough density to capture the details of your 24mil sculpt.
Ptex merging is really crisp.
When merging to Ptex note down the "carcass resolution" number you have chosen,it will be important for next step.
Once merging is made go to file/menu,there you got "export hires" it will export displaced ptex hires mesh,
there you have 3 kinds of export possible ;multiplying original carcass 4x 16 x or 64x.
(Example:for a 200k carcass, Export Hires 16x would give you 3.2 mil so you have to use more like 800k carcass for merging to get 13mil.)
That mesh can be used in Xnormal to get your occlusion map and all tools from Paint room are now available. 8)

Also now,you get access to the occlusion tool that is only available to Ptex and Microvertex merging.
Its different than PPP occlusion,it uses an array of lights along an half-sphere or a sphere.
It gives very nice result but it generates a lot of self-shadowing compared to PPP occlusion,which is local.
But maybe you will like it.Of course Xnormal occlusion is best occlusion avaible now .

You will find a way,Im sure.
btw,I must tell you,your Dominance War IV entry is just awesome.
Really nice finish and design I thought. :)
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#12 Garagarape

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 03:48 PM

Artman, thanks!
I'm going to try the last method you talked about soon;
I think the sculpt is ok even if it is not perfect
(could add details, but may try just to paint them with bump and stuff).

Updated post #6 picture directly.

Dominance War? Yes that was fun (and pain too).
Next time is scheduled during winter holidays.
Will you try to make something?
Can't take part to the DW this time
for I'll be back to France just in the middle of the competition...
I wonder how many people will enter the challenge using 3D Coat.
That is surely a good weapon to fight with.
Ahhhh! Wanna participate!

Next post probably next week-end.
Too much work at work :)

#13 wave of light

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Posted 17 October 2010 - 07:34 PM

Wow, that's a very nice Horse you have there. 24 mil tris and still working. I think my PC would have had trouble with that. Look forward to seeing this textured.

On a side note.. I liked Sculptris too, but I've heard that the makers of ZBrush have bought it and the developer, to incorporate it into Zbrush of the coming years.

Ricky.
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rsldesigns.co.uk (my website)


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#14 Garagarape

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Posted 19 October 2010 - 05:22 PM

Couldn't wait to start retopo.
I make it manually to have a light model (May rig it?).
No time to do it all at once...

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#15 Garagarape

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 06:10 PM

Little update:

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Retopo, the most fun part of the work with Uvs tweaking :)
20 minutes a day and it will be done by the end of the week.

#16 michalis

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Posted 20 October 2010 - 07:05 PM

Nice. Well done. I can't understand how you divided UV islands though. No stretching as I noticed.
Another question, did you bake AO too? I started to avoid this, it looks good but not the best.
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#17 AbnRanger

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 01:35 AM

Nice sculpting job. :good: I use to love to draw horses when I was growing up.

#18 Garagarape

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 02:50 AM

Nice. Well done. I can't understand how you divided UV islands though. No stretching as I noticed.
Another question, did you bake AO too? I started to avoid this, it looks good but not the best.


Thanks! I've just used the "mark seams" tool and unfold the whole.
It's just a trial to see what it will look like in the end.
I must admit it is not the best place to insert seams.
Yes, AO and normals are baked on the last shot.
You are right about AO; it is slightly blury with the default settings
(didn't try to tweak the ray cast though).
I will probably use X-normal only for AO baking at the very end of the work.

Nice sculpting job. :good: I use to love to draw horses when I was growing up.


Thanks! It hasn't got a really artistic value, but
I think horses are good to practice. I didn't draw
horses when I was a kid, only dinosaurs and monsters
like gollum or Smaug :)

#19 Garagarape

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 04:08 PM

??!!! Doctor Banner?
Is there a way to control the mesh color when re-opening a file?
I prefer pink if possible.

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#20 LJB

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 06:12 PM

you made him angry!!
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