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3D-Coat 3.3 updates thread


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#841 lino

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 10:59 AM

I got some serious problems in the latest build using the retopology tools. Can't create quads using Point And Faces tool, and Strokes snaps to already existing vertex and in general works a little crazy. I'm on my 32 bit laptop. Anyone else?

#842 Taros

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 12:07 PM

I got some serious problems in the latest build using the retopology tools. Can't create quads using Point And Faces tool, and Strokes snaps to already existing vertex and in general works a little crazy. I'm on my 32 bit laptop. Anyone else?

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#843 lino

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 03:07 PM

-> http://www.3d-coat.c...indpost&p=48465



Thank you!

#844 BeatKitano

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 03:48 PM

Updated to 3.3.14 (Win only, Mac & Linux - soon)

- I disabled possibility to transform volume in proxy mode from surface to voxels to prevent loses. It changes nothing in workflow but prevents random loses while working with proxy.





Aaaaah, thank you, I can now use the proxy function without worrying of losing hours of work because I acidently pushed enter by habit (surface to voxel) :)

#845 MaDDoX

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 03:57 PM

I'm curious what you mean by "semi realtime". The painting always been fully real time for me going back to the first version I bought early in the 2.x era, only the displacement had a slight delay (when you let go of the brush), but now that's real time too.

Well Phil, last time I've tried it (it's been a couple months and considering 3DC's dev speed this is a long time :)) there was a sensible delay between the UV-viewport stroke (which's 100% realtime) and the stroke actually showing up in the 3D view. With well laid out UVs it's quite handy (for instance, to get perfectly aligned color stripes) to brush on the UV view while you keep looking at the 3D-view result, that's why I keep both views tiled side-by-side all the time in the paint room. Anyways, maybe my experience it's just another side effect of the sluggishness of the paint tools in general.

If there are no points in pen then you will be able to add quad.
Yes, it was changed in all retopo tools to get better control over points picking. Agree, it may be unusual on the first glance, but if you know this rule... it will help a lot to get better control.

All this "brush radius controlling pinpoint operations" concept is kinda disorienting tbh. I found it by mere accident and it has led to needless additional frustration - having to increase and decrease brush size just to carry out this or that operation. I've also read a couple comments from users that think the software is bugged because of it. It makes little-to-no sense when you're using a single-item-picking operation and have to watch your brush size. Worst case currently is when you try to split an edge and have to lower the brush size until it fits the middle of the edge to pull it off. Now, I thought points-and-faces wasn't even working, since I couldn't for the life of me use it to create quads while working yesterday, then I read here that it's just a case of reducing the brush size again? Oh my.. :( It's not as if we can keep the brush size to one, since we generally need to smooth and brush-nudge poly areas. I know the previous behavior was very inaccurate and shaky, but there must be a better option. Maybe a toggle between both? :unsure:

#846 Calabi

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 05:21 PM

At least it I know it wasnt just me being stupid now. Yeah I think it might be better if it just had a slight radius round the center of the brush where it jumps to the vert instead of being dependant of the brush size. I think Wings3d and Silo has that sort of behaviour.

#847 philnolan3d

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Posted 01 September 2010 - 07:12 PM

All this "brush radius controlling pinpoint operations" concept is kinda disorienting tbh. I found it by mere accident and it has led to needless additional frustration - having to increase and decrease brush size just to carry out this or that operation. I've also read a couple comments from users that think the software is bugged because of it. It makes little-to-no sense when you're using a single-item-picking operation and have to watch your brush size.


I was one of those users, using the Strokes tool the stroke would snap to any geometry that fell inside the brush radius. I figured this was a bug and reported it. It would be a pain to check the brush size every time I use this tool.
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#848 philnolan3d

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:01 AM

I was testing the new turntable tool and noticed the same thing I noticed when I was rendering them out myself. When you render animation it is extremely slow. For example with my current model the real time render or just hitting the Render button without real time takes about 20 seconds before it looks good. However with animation or the new turntable tool it's about 2 - 2.5 minutes per frame and that's with the number of rays set just high enough to look nice. It's also very difficult to get out of it. I could sit here hitting Esc. repeatedly for a good 10 minutes before it eventually stops.
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#849 AbnRanger

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 02:27 AM

At least it I know it wasnt just me being stupid now. Yeah I think it might be better if it just had a slight radius round the center of the brush where it jumps to the vert instead of being dependant of the brush size. I think Wings3d and Silo has that sort of behaviour.

Yeah...in order to make clean up less of a hassle with trouble spots, usually when relaxing or subdividing the Retopo mesh, I asked Andrew if he could enable us to select a vertex anywhere on the mesh. In Max, Maya, etc...people coming from these programs expect to be able to select verts from any angle (with the option to disable selection of backfacing elements). So the answer was to allow a vert within a given distance of the cursor to be selectable, no matter where it is on the mesh. The way it was happened to be a major PITA when trying to clean up the occasional rats nesting that would occur (especially on relatively dense meshes). Many times you'd have to fight with the program to find an angle where you could get to the stray vertices. You still can't seem to be able to select a vert that dips beneath the voxel model. You have to turn the voxel object's visibility off, first. At least we got the Vox Tree in the Retopo Room to do that more quickly.

So if Andrew can make that based on a fixed distance from the center of the cursor, that could perhaps fix the problem. That way it's not dependent on brush radius

#850 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:00 AM

I was testing the new turntable tool and noticed the same thing I noticed when I was rendering them out myself. When you render animation it is extremely slow. For example with my current model the real time render or just hitting the Render button without real time takes about 20 seconds before it looks good. However with animation or the new turntable tool it's about 2 - 2.5 minutes per frame and that's with the number of rays set just high enough to look nice. It's also very difficult to get out of it. I could sit here hitting Esc. repeatedly for a good 10 minutes before it eventually stops.

I tried, but speed of rendering is the same if I rendering animation or rendering manually...
Try to render turnable (animation) while being in render room.

And it could be goo to get the model to reproduce the problem.

#851 Taurus

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:53 AM

3.3.14

I have problem with Add/Split in retopo , sometimes it works fine and let you cut anywhere and sometimes it snaps to vertexes and it's impossible to get rid of this vertex snap (like I want to cut in the middle of edge)

Looks like snapping to vertex in this tool is too strong if edge length is small, maybe there should be snap strength option for this tool.

#852 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:56 AM

3.3.14

I have problem with Add/Split in retopo , sometimes it works fine and let you cut anywhere and sometimes it snaps to vertexes and it's impossible to get rid of this vertex snap (like I want to cut in the middle of edge)

Looks like snapping to vertex in this tool is too strong.

Snapping to vertices depends on pen radius, so you may control better what do you need - edges or vertices.
Actually it is helpful only in Add/Split, so this behavior will be removed from other tools to avoid misunderstood.

#853 philnolan3d

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 11:12 AM

I tried, but speed of rendering is the same if I rendering animation or rendering manually...
Try to render turnable (animation) while being in render room.

And it could be goo to get the model to reproduce the problem.


I've been noticing this for a long time now with any dense voxel model I've tried. The current one (below) is about 17 million tris.

I tried to record a video but the recording messed up the times. So here I made screenshots allowing it to render for exactly 22 seconds before taking the screenshot (I have a timer). You can see the realtime one is much further along than the animation rendered one in the same amount of time.

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The full turntable I made took at least two and a half hours for 36 frames.
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#854 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 06:25 PM

I re-uploaded 3.3.14 just to check if changes in retopo tools are good.
I made that pen radius is applied for picking vertices only for particular tools where it looks logical.
Other changes from Twitter are there too.

#855 Taurus

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 07:14 PM

With models thumbnails there is small issue - they are not 'interactive' at all, they don't have any mouse over animation or selected state indication (like 1 pixel white border around thumbnail to indicate this item is selected)

It would give 3DC better feeling if all thumbnails in all panels would have mouse over animation.For example in Zbrush if you mouse over any alpha,brush etc they will highlight with 1 pixel white border around them.It gives,nice interactive feeling.

#856 AbnRanger

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 10:43 PM

With models thumbnails there is small issue - they are not 'interactive' at all, they don't have any mouse over animation or selected state indication (like 1 pixel white border around thumbnail to indicate this item is selected)

It would give 3DC better feeling if all thumbnails in all panels would have mouse over animation.For example in Zbrush if you mouse over any alpha,brush etc they will highlight with 1 pixel white border around them.It gives,nice interactive feeling.

Why do they need to glow? If you know what you want, click it. That's just my 2 cents...I'm all for add functionality, but not so much, for frills.

#857 juanmanuel

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 11:10 PM

Why do they need to glow? If you know what you want, click it. That's just my 2 cents...I'm all for add functionality, but not so much, for frills.


It would be a nice touch, but it would be on one of my lowest priority list. But maybe it just takes a minute to implement, so who knows...
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#858 MaDDoX

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 05:20 PM

Why do they need to glow? If you know what you want, click it. That's just my 2 cents...I'm all for add functionality, but not so much, for frills.

I do think mouse over feedback is a great feature to have, especially for newcomers, but I have to agree with AbnRanger when we don't even have real time progress bars!

Seriously, what the hell is with 3DCoat's progress bars?? Every artist I show 3DCoat to and that tries to use it always complain about the fact that it might take 5-10 seconds just to show the progress bars after clicking on some commands, even auto-retopo. Believe it or not, I've actually seen a bit more anxious artist hitting ctrl+alt+del to finish the application once in such a situation.. :o

Not to mention that when the operation completes before the progress bar box shows up, you get zero feedback about what happened - especially if it was an operation that led to no result, like for instance performing relax on an already relaxed island. It's just as if the program went to zombieland for a moment and then back, with no warning.. :(

You know what I've got used to do to know when the program had completed some operations? To put the mouse pointer over a different menu option than the one selected. As soon as it highlights I know the program is back to his externally-conscious state. Ouch..

That all might sound funny and minimal, but it's a serious issue that makes the program seem quite unprofessional. If the progress bar box showed up instantly for such operations, even if stuck at zero% for some time, this kind of frustration would be completely removed.

#859 juanmanuel

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 06:01 PM

I agree with Maddox. This is more important than the glowing buttons feature, and it is unnerving that you're never sure when something is "done".
Still hooked to real life

#860 artman

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 06:59 PM

You know what I've got used to do to know when the program had completed some operations? To put the mouse pointer over a different menu option than the one selected. As soon as it highlights I know the program is back to his externally-conscious state. Ouch..

Its funny,I use this workaround too. :)
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