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Importing high poly objects for painting


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#1 simmsimaging

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 09:08 PM

Trying to figure out a good workflow for my studio and while voxel sculpting looks promising, I find it too difficult to get really good hi-res details. For now I'm doing that in Zbrush still, but I want to use 3DC for texture painting.

The issue is that I am also tired of problematic displacement/normal map export workflows (using lo-res mesh with maps from hi-res mesh) so what I have been doing is using Decimation Master to output as small a hi-res mesh as I can from Zbrush. That I use via Vray proxy for rendering. These are fairly high res, but well within rendering limits for me. The problem is getting a low enough res mesh that I can bring into 3DC for additional texture painting. The decimated meshes are still 1 million polys and more. How can I get these into 3DC for texture painting? Tried a straight import for per-pixel etc but it just hangs and hangs and eventually I gave up.


Thanks in advance
b
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#2 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 09:14 PM

Import relatively low-res mesh (low subdiv level, 50-200 k) with UV-map.
Use File->Import big mesh to import high-res mesh over low-poly mesh. Both meshes should have same uv-set.

#3 simmsimaging

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 09:40 PM

Import relatively low-res mesh (low subdiv level, 50-200 k) with UV-map.
Use File->Import big mesh to import high-res mesh over low-poly mesh. Both meshes should have same uv-set.



Thanks Andrew, but I don't think this would be an an option - I just have the one hi-res mesh after decimation. It's pretty much the same thing as exporing an .obj from Voxels - you get one triangulated mesh, not multiple sub-d levels. Is there any other way to get a high res model in? I know I could import it to voxels, but then I lose all the fine detail and I'm back to square one.
b
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#4 artman

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 09:49 PM

Thanks Andrew, but I don't think this would be an an option - I just have the one hi-res mesh after decimation. It's pretty much the same thing as exporing an .obj from Voxels - you get one triangulated mesh, not multiple sub-d levels. Is there any other way to get a high res model in? I know I could import it to voxels, but then I lose all the fine detail and I'm back to square one.
b

-In Zbrush use "Unified Skin" to get a lowpoly out of your sculpt.
-Import decimated Hires as "Reference mesh" in 3DC up to aprox 3mil.
-Import Unified Skin lowpoly in retopo room and merge to scene using microvertex or Ptex.
-Paint

Should work. :)
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#5 simmsimaging

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 09:58 PM

-In Zbrush use "Unified Skin" to get a lowpoly out of your sculpt.
-Import decimated Hires as "Reference mesh" in 3DC up to aprox 3mil.
-Import Unified Skin lowpoly in retopo room and merge to scene using microvertex or Ptex.
-Paint

Should work. :)


Cool - will try that later today! Thanks!

b
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#6 simmsimaging

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 12:34 AM

Cool - will try that later today! Thanks!

b



So I think I did this right, but what I now have is a 3rd mesh, that is an approximate of the Zbrush hi-res, although rougher, but that I can paint on in 3DC. That part is all good, but this is a new object with new UV's, so the textures painted for it won't fit the hi-res original. Did I miss something?

Thanks for the help.

b
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www.simmsimaging.com

#7 artman

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 06:25 AM

So I think I did this right, but what I now have is a 3rd mesh, that is an approximate of the Zbrush hi-res, although rougher, but that I can paint on in 3DC. That part is all good, but this is a new object with new UV's, so the textures painted for it won't fit the hi-res original. Did I miss something?

Thanks for the help.

b

I did not know there was uvs on your decimated hires... :pardon:

When merging to scene:

If you set number of millions to 10million polys
Set carcass level at its highest
Set texture to 4096
Then I really dont see how it could be rougher than your original...
(If you use Ptex it should even be better)

Then when you're finished painting use file-export-Hipoly object(second or third option) and you should get a new
hires that is as good as the original...with Uvs..and with your texture.
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#8 simmsimaging

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 06:38 AM

I did not know there was uvs on your decimated hires... :pardon:

When merging to scene:

If you set number of millions to 10million polys
Set carcass level at its highest
Set texture to 4096
Then I really dont see how it could be rougher than your original...
(If you use Ptex it should even be better)

Then when you're finished painting use file-export-Hipoly object(second or third option) and you should get a new
hires that is as good as the original...with Uvs..and with your texture.


Sorry, should have been more clear. My goal is to paint texture maps I can use on my hi-res mesh (the decimated file, but still 1-3 million poly). I didn't realize your method was for replacing the object entirely - I will try the higher res method and see how it goes. Thanks for the help.

b
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www.simmsimaging.com

#9 artman

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 06:43 AM

Sorry, should have been more clear. My goal is to paint texture maps I can use on my hi-res mesh (the decimated file, but still 1-3 million poly). I didn't realize your method was for replacing the object entirely - I will try the higher res method and see how it goes. Thanks for the help.

b

You can transfer the texturing to your decimated .obj using texture-texture baking tool. :)
3Dc is not gonna choke because it wont even be really loading the file.
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#10 simmsimaging

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 07:34 AM

You can transfer the texturing to your decimated .obj using texture-texture baking tool. :)
3Dc is not gonna choke because it wont even be really loading the file.




Ah - this may be the answer I was looking for - much simpler! It seems to be working okay at the moment, but I'll need to test it a bit more. Thanks again for the help!

b
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www.simmsimaging.com

#11 Andrew Shpagin

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 09:44 AM

What about exporting low resolution mesh from lower subdiv level before decimation while subdiv levels still exist?
Other way - decimate it to 300-600k and paint in per-pixel mode if you need just texture, then export and use it for your high-poly mesh.

#12 polyxo

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 11:47 AM

An interesting thread!
I appreciated if there was a dedicated thread for common and not so common Import/Export scenarios and other
complex workflows! All the options which can only get accessed when cleverly combining tools are imo more
difficult by far to grasp than anything else in 3DC!
There's many videos which discuss newly added tools....
Unspectacular but important work scenarios needed to achieve professional output from a first drafts however
are pretty much undocumented!

Certainly this is no field which can get explored by experimentation alone because it is easy to let 3DC hang or even
crash when just trying things out with random settings.
On the other hand 3DC can do extremely cool stuff, given the person sitting in front of it knows what he is doing
or got the "golden" hint. When even highly experienced graphics professionals like Hervé and Brett are puzzled and
have to ask there must be quite a gap in the documentation somewhere...

I'm sure a person like Artman could help many of us out with a series √° la "Did you know" in the Zbrush-Central Forums.

#13 artman

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 04:32 PM

An interesting thread!
I appreciated if there was a dedicated thread for common and not so common Import/Export scenarios and other
complex workflows! All the options which can only get accessed when cleverly combining tools are imo more
difficult by far to grasp than anything else in 3DC!
There's many videos which discuss newly added tools....
Unspectacular but important work scenarios needed to achieve professional output from a first drafts however
are pretty much undocumented!

Certainly this is no field which can get explored by experimentation alone because it is easy to let 3DC hang or even
crash when just trying things out with random settings.
On the other hand 3DC can do extremely cool stuff, given the person sitting in front of it knows what he is doing
or got the "golden" hint. When even highly experienced graphics professionals like Hervé and Brett are puzzled and
have to ask there must be quite a gap in the documentation somewhere...

I'm sure a person like Artman could help many of us out with a series á la "Did you know" in the Zbrush-Central Forums.


Most of the stuff we are talking about here is documented:
Import Big mesh function.
Merge to microvertex.
Texture Baking tool.
Its all in manual and settings does not require much experimentation.. ;)

As for myself I have problem with stuff that takes more than 20minutes :( (im working on fixing this)
so... its easy for me answering quick answers to posts but really hard to write down long well written workflows.
Anyways users have really specififc problems also..
Im confident within the next year more and more infos will be posted by users,even deep complete tutorials about interaction with other apps.
Meanwhile,feel free to ask questions whenever you feel like it. :)

(Ps:Look at Leigh's next webinar for example,it seems hes gonna show a complete workflow.Its just the beginning)
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#14 simmsimaging

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 04:51 PM

What about exporting low resolution mesh from lower subdiv level before decimation while subdiv levels still exist?
Other way - decimate it to 300-600k and paint in per-pixel mode if you need just texture, then export and use it for your high-poly mesh.


Thanks Andrew.

The first method you suggest is probably the best way as long as you have UV's prior to decimation - in this case I just lost my UV's along the way and ended up with a finished sculpt on an object that was hard to UV and too high poly to paint. The second method I do not think will work because the pre-decimation mesh and post decimation mesh do not have precisely matching UV's so you end up with weird texture artifacts when you apply one painted on the low-res mesh.

For now I have two lines to try as well though: the first will be to ensure the object has some kind of uv's (even AUV out of Zbrush) prior to decimation - there is an option to keep uv's in that process. Then from there I will try and decimate it a second time, again with keep UV's, to create a lower res from the *already decimated mesh*. That might work - but right now I can't seem to get Zbrush to decimate the second time when UV's are applied :rolleyes: Always something...

The other way is to use the Texture Baking tool as Artman suggested last night. I made a totally new lo-res mesh with completely different UV's, painted that, and used the TB tool to export for the higher res decimated mesh. Seems to have worked fine - but I need to test it further to see how accurately the maps match the geometry for a variety of shapes etc.

I have to agree with Polyxo about workflow needing better documentation. I know that many of the parameters are listed in the docs, but many are not, or are barely covered, and there is very little about which tool/option to use when, and in which order. 3DC is actually very complicated in that you can do many things several different ways (I think you can import a model about 12 different ways, and I am not aware of any documentation that really makes it clear which way to use at any given time :) ). I'm all for simplifying the process (removing extraneous options entirely) or a good workflow doc/ thread. Once I figure this one out I will post it - it may not be the best but if it works it may be useful to somebody.

b
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#15 simmsimaging

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 08:00 PM

Texture baking is giving me some issues that I can't figure out how to resolve: see attached images for a screen cap in 3DC of the texture, and the texture-bake result on the hi-res mesh in Max (it's a super rough rest, so don't worry about the crap model and texture). No displacement/normals, it's just a colour map test.

The texture is lining up well enough, but I'm getting this weird artifacting at the corners of all the polys and some odd areas of texture stretching etc. I exported the baked map at 8K and painted it at 8K using Per-Pixel Painting. I played with the in/out depth parameter on the Texture Baking tool but it doesn't seem to be doing anything.

How do I get rid of those weird artifacts?

Thanks in advance
b
3dC_Screen.png
Max_screen_cap.png
Brett Simms
www.simmsimaging.com

#16 artman

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 08:06 PM

Texture baking is giving me some issues that I can't figure out how to resolve: see attached images for a screen cap in 3DC of the texture, and the texture-bake result on the hi-res mesh in Max (it's a super rough rest, so don't worry about the crap model and texture). No displacement/normals, it's just a colour map test.

The texture is lining up well enough, but I'm getting this weird artifacting at the corners of all the polys and some odd areas of texture stretching etc. I exported the baked map at 8K and painted it at 8K using Per-Pixel Painting. I played with the in/out depth parameter on the Texture Baking tool but it doesn't seem to be doing anything.

How do I get rid of those weird artifacts?

Thanks in advance
b

3dC_Screen.png
Max_screen_cap.png

Try this,maybe it will work: :pardon:

Dont paint on lowpoly.

Import hires as reference mesh.
Import lowes from retopo menu-import
Merge to Ptex with big res.
Paint.
Then use Baking tool from ptex scene to your original decimated mesh.
you have AUV + projection from a lowpoly to different topology,its bad omen.
Higres-to-Highres there shouldnt be much distortion.
Anyway,its just speculation... :)
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"

#17 simmsimaging

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Posted 05 February 2010 - 08:07 PM

Try this,maybe it will work

Dont paint on lowpoly.

Import hires as reference mesh.
Import lowes from retopo menu-import
Merge to Ptex with big res.
Paint.
Use texture
Then use Baking tool.
you got AUV + projrction from alowpoly to different topology,its bad omen.
Higres-to-Highres there shouldt be much distortion.
Anyway,its just speculation... :)



K - I will try that. Thanks Artman.
Brett Simms
www.simmsimaging.com

#18 simmsimaging

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 12:52 AM

K - I will try that. Thanks Artman.



I tried this approach and the result is actually worse. I was not able to output as hi-res a final map - Texture Baking tool would not let me go higher than 4K for some reason - but the artifacting is pretty much the same, only larger due to the res difference I think.

Any other thoughts as to what would cause this? The new mesh is much closer to the topology of the hi-res. Must be a setting thing or something I'm doing wrong.

Thanks /b
Brett Simms
www.simmsimaging.com

#19 simmsimaging

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 01:02 AM

I think it could be res related, the attached is the new map (painted at 8K via Per-Pixel on the new "medium" res mesh made as per Artman's direction) but rendered at 2K via TExture Baking. It's not just lo-res, it's totally messed. Is this expected?

b


2K_Map_In_Max.png
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#20 artman

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 04:33 AM

I think it could be res related, the attached is the new map (painted at 8K via Per-Pixel on the new "medium" res mesh made as per Artman's direction) but rendered at 2K via TExture Baking. It's not just lo-res, it's totally messed. Is this expected?

b


2K_Map_In_Max.png

Hmmm...can you try GUV?
Lest limbs be reddened and rent--I spring the trap that is set--As I loose the snare you may glimpse me there--For surely you shall forget
"The Wind In the Willows", Chapter 7 "The Piper at the Gates Of Dawn"




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