129 replies to this topic

[stevecullum]

philnolan3d, on 20 January 2010 - 11:45 PM, said:

No game engines and actually most other 3D programs right now do no support Ptex, though of course this may change quickly. So for now if you paint with Ptex you'd still have to make a UV map and bake the paint to that when you export.

Then I'm not quite understanding Andrew's comment here:

Quote

And what is good - you will be able to use Ptex objects from 3D-Coat even in engines that don't support Ptex

[philnolan3d]

stevecullum, on 21 January 2010 - 12:06 AM, said:

Then I'm not quite understanding Andrew's comment here:

Maybe because you didn't post his entire quote:

Quote

you will be able to use Ptex objects from 3D-Coat even in engines that don't support Ptex - just export model and textures.

[artaq]

3D Coat has to do this intelligently or else it just ends up being a very seamless, albeit impossible UV map to handle in any 2D imaging application much like others pointed out Zbrush does. If there were some way to have the model flatten in sections (watch the youtube video of PTex in action to see what I mean) in order for someone to take it into an application like Photoshop to manipulate, then bring those changes back into 3D Coat, that would be astounding. Don't get me wrong, I use 3D Coat a lot for doing base texture work, especially for seams, but a lot of finer details are better left doing in an app such as Photoshop still. Maybe even export large islands based off of a quick retopo? Something to make it human-editable out of 3D Coat... Granted I realize a major selling point (besides the multitudes of one's discussed here) is the fact that little to no texture space is wasted due to the nature of the format, so obviously some sacrifice would be made on that end.

Andrew, it's amazing what you're doing, quite possibly paving the way for future artists... thanks and keep up the great work!!

[CGicore]

Way to go Andrew. Looking forward to try it on in 3dc.

[stevecullum]

Quote

Maybe because you didn't post his entire quote:

Thats the confusing part - just export model and textures, I interpreted as 'No UV maps to create - just export model and textures'

[philnolan3d]

stevecullum, on 21 January 2010 - 08:32 PM, said:

Thats the confusing part - just export model and textures, I interpreted as 'No UV maps to create - just export model and textures'

I see, sorry I read it to mean that we'd have to bake it to a UV, since that's what other programs know how to read.

[stevecullum]

Quote

I see, sorry I read it to mean that we'd have to bake it to a UV, since that's what other programs know how to read.

Sure - I was under the impression that any export would auto-create any UV that was needed. So in that way I assumed we wouldn't need to create anything ourselves. Perhaps Andrew can clarify the situation?

[Javis]

Klaus Nordby, on 20 January 2010 - 07:27 PM, said:

Wow. Fabulous! Soon I can forget whatever (very little) I know about UVs! In the whole world, only Javis will miss UVs. :-)a

lol, It's true!

This is a welcome addition, UV missing aside.

[Javis]

Taros, on 20 January 2010 - 07:24 PM, said:

I hope you will support tris, too.

Best wishes
Chris

Unfortunately this is not up to Andrew, it's just the way the algorithm works apparently. Ptex just doesn't support triangles or n-gons.

[philnolan3d]

geothefaust, on 22 January 2010 - 06:00 AM, said:

Unfortunately this is not up to Andrew, it's just the way the algorithm works apparently. Ptex just doesn't support triangles or n-gons.

Ptex does support triangles, no n-gons though.

http://ptex.us/tritex.html

[Javis]

philnolan3d, on 22 January 2010 - 06:41 AM, said:

Ptex does support triangles, no n-gons though.

http://ptex.us/tritex.html

Hey thanks Phil, that's news to me. Good news in fact.

[WillBellJr]

I have to say great work Andrew, you are the fastest programmer on the planet as far as I'm concerned!

-Will

[AbnRanger]

Andrew Shpagin, on 20 January 2010 - 05:30 PM, said:

It is almost equivalent to 1k x 1k. Actually 1k x 1k texture takes 700-800k pixels.
I don't know about price point. Possibly it will be free. At least for existing customers.
Anyway, I have no final point on this.

And the pipeline is easy - import object like it is for microvertices. Now only quads are supported. Local dencity can be changed. Of course I have not checked it, but it is relatively easy to do.

With all the improvements that have come with 3DC since v3, a modest price increase from $285 to $299 would make sense to me. You said early on that the price will increase in accord with the increase in features.

[AbnRanger]

philnolan3d, on 20 January 2010 - 11:45 PM, said:

No game engines and actually most other 3D programs right now do no support Ptex, though of course this may change quickly. So for now if you paint with Ptex you'd still have to make a UV map and bake the paint to that when you export.

Even then, UV editing is stupid fast in 3DC now...after all the work Andrew did to overhaul the toolset months ago, I don't do UV Unwrapping in 3ds Max anymore. So having to do UV's shouldn't cause any real heartburn.

[demether]

@AbnRanger

Quote

With all the improvements that have come with 3DC since v3, a modest price increase from $285 to $299 would make sense to me

Thanks to you to anticipate our participation in all that, but if you are so in hurry to pay, please do it for me...
cause i don't know for others but i'm not rich and i would prefer to have an option for that feature rather than an obligation...

i'd like more an "apply UV" button in retopo room without exporting or merging to apply the seams i made.

first let's finish and polish existing stuff and clarify workflow before facing new problems.

just my thought

[AbnRanger]

demether, on 22 January 2010 - 10:04 PM, said:

@AbnRanger


Thanks to you to anticipate our participation in all that, but if you are so in hurry to pay, please do it for me...
cause i don't know for others but i'm not rich and i would prefer to have an option for that feature rather than an obligation...

i'd like more an "apply UV" button in retopo room without exporting or merging to apply the seams i made.

first let's finish and polish existing stuff and clarify workflow before facing new problems.

just my thought

Andrew stated when v3 was released that as more features were added the price would correspond. Since then, a ton of features and improvements were added...so with those and PTex, an extra $15 is more than worth it, for those that have yet to purchase the application. If you're going to throw a fit over $15, then maybe you should be looking elsewhere. Maybe Blender is your cup of tea. There are standalone UV editing applications that cost more than 3DC:
http://www.polygonal...unfold/ccov.php
There are 3D Painting applications that cost 2-3 times more:
http://www.maxonshop...P-N-4&act=gpage
https://store.righth...tainment-bundle
http://www.righthemi...D_UV/index.html

[philnolan3d]

AbnRanger, on 22 January 2010 - 10:15 PM, said:

Andrew stated when v3 was released that as more features were added the price would correspond.

Actually he said it much longer ago than that, when I first bought 3DC (3DB at the time) it was $70. As the features grew the price went up.

[Amber]

I agree with demether, 299$ is too much for 3DC, you can get Zbrush 3.5R3 with free update to Zbrush4 for 510$,industry standard with TONS of videos and free support on youtube(many great and free tutorials) and Zbrush community.3DC has very small community,not enough educational resources(Voxels?),manual needs to be much better for such complicated software.
I'm glad I snatched 3DC cheaply but I dont think I would ever pay 299$ or even current price.
I bought 3DC for painting and retopo,most updates and work were put unfortunately into Voxels.Voxels are not that much useful - learning curve is steep, you need hardware to run it fast (nVidia card with CUDA),educational resources and manual are limited,workflow complicated ,look at forums everybody is using Zbrush/Mudbox.Even in 3DC own forum it not that many WIPs.

A lot things needs to be cleaned and ironed out,paint mode and retopo mode could get some love ? I don't think Ptex would bring a lot new customers but pricing to 299$ for sure will make some consider Zbrush instead.

@AbnRanger They can charge more because software like DeepPaint or BodyPaint is industry established brand,besides nobody buys BodyPaint standalone you get it as bundle with C4D.

[AbnRanger]

Amber, on 23 January 2010 - 12:25 AM, said:

I agree with demether, 299$ is too much for 3DC, you can get Zbrush 3.5R3 with free update to Zbrush4 for 510$,industry standard with TONS of videos and free support on youtube(many great and free tutorials) and Zbrush community.3DC has very small community,not enough educational resources(Voxels?),manual needs to be much better for such complicated software.
I'm glad I snatched 3DC cheaply but I dont think I would ever pay 299$ or even current price.
I bought 3DC for painting and retopo,most updates and work were put unfortunately into Voxels.Voxels are not that much useful - learning curve is steep, you need hardware to run it fast (nVidia card with CUDA),educational resources and manual are limited,workflow complicated ,look at forums everybody is using Zbrush/Mudbox.Even in 3DC own forum it not that many WIPs.

A lot things needs to be cleaned and ironed out,paint mode and retopo mode could get some love ? I don't think Ptex would bring a lot new customers but pricing to 299$ for sure will make some consider Zbrush instead.

@AbnRanger They can charge more because software like DeepPaint or BodyPaint is industry established brand,besides nobody buys BodyPaint standalone you get it as bundle with C4D.

BodyPaint was expensive as a standalone. They incorporated it within the C4D, and that forces you buy the base version whether you want it or not...Deep Paint is what I used...they have all but abandoned it...never had any video tutorials. And it no longer works with Vista or Win 7.

You may not think 3DC is worth it, but ZBrush is $600: http://www.pixologic.com/store/ And Mudbox is $750
If you need a serious 3D Painting application that has top shelf UV layout tools and approaches ZB and MB in sculpting ability...3DC is a heck of a deal at half the price of ZB.

[Taros]

Nobody forces someone to by a software. It is always a decision of you. If someone doesn't need 3D Coats functionality, this is ok.

zBrush went a long way to be where the tool is placed today. It was a hobby project at the early beginning. zBrush needed years to build such a community, like it is today. 3D Coat is new in the market. And nobody can expect a perfect software or dozens of tutorials in one or two years of developement. Especially when there is a big competition with tools, which are already established in the market.

In my opinion every software lives with and from the users (Hope you understand my english?). The users are important in two ways: First, to allow the developers to earn enough money to produce a better software and second, the users build and are the community which serves all the needed tutorials and feedback. The developers are not able to manage such a big task themself. Only a big interest group can safe a good position in the market.

So, please don't compare the tools in such a way, like I read here. Try to stay objective. If you need 3D Coat, it's nice, if you need zBrush it's nice, too. If you need both, hey - why not? Use the tools you need.

Best wishes
Chris