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Leigh's Sketchbook


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#21 LJB

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:42 PM

these are really nice but they lack precision, its all still quite soft and squishy looking - is that just because of the toolset or the fact its voxels or do you think we will ever be able to sculpt stuff that matches the clean sharp sculpting in zbrush or mudbox? I want to buy 3dcoat but this issue is making me think there really isnt a place for it in my workflow


Well all of the above. I really love the program but Voxels just dont seem to offer the crispness of ZBrush of MB Of which i both use regularly. I am truly impressed with the Voxel Feel and but when you start increasing your Voxel level (and currently with no way to jump back down) the machine soon starts to play silly buggers, and that is any machine I use it on two High spec workstation systems. each over 8gb 64bit and they struggle with large brushes on a two level voxel sculpt. meaning 1 i have to reduce the Size of the brush and 2 sometimes you just need a big brush especially when nudging/moving. The skull at the beginning of the thread is about as high as i could effectively take it but i still could not achieve a nice craes line with the voxels. Its a bit like working a fine sculpt with coarsley crocked clay. You either smooth too much and remove the tiny detail or put down too much and ruin the smooth.

You can very quickly build something to a low level of detail like these but then what 3d coat wants you to do is sculpt the normal to get a ifinitely more detailed result this goes againt my grain as a ZBrush user .I want to push the detail in the sculpt stage. I will continue to experiment I think i have good call to quickly rough out heads and figures using it as it just feels really nice and thats half the point of a tool, but i would probably take it back to ZBrush for high detail (much more comfortable, SORRY).

I think what it does it does well but its not going to deliver the UBER detail of ZBrush (That is just yet!).

For this price id say give it a go the topology tools are beautiful to use which was why i initially purchased it back at its previous revision. So i guess if you want a nice fast retop set its worth it. fitting into Production i think Retop is the main feature here, i already have a texure painter and Sculpting software but retop was always a lowpoint as i hate Zbrushes retopping feel. So many errors Points not selects or incorrect split edge.

As to voxels I have many many base meshes that i have built previously that i can import and use as voxel bases but to actually intuitively grow the voxels to fit a specific form is a little tricky, once you have the form (in my case form and import obj) then is great but Z-Spheres feel better for prototyping form (Andrew keep that in mind somting similar for voxel laying out would be a wonderful edition).

Hope that helps!!
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#22 Tony Nemo

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 06:46 PM

these are really nice but they lack precision, its all still quite soft and squishy looking - is that just because of the toolset or the fact its voxels or do you think we will ever be able to sculpt stuff that matches the clean sharp sculpting in zbrush or mudbox? I want to buy 3dcoat but this issue is making me think there really isnt a place for it in my workflow


"Sharp"? Do you mean, creases, eyelashes or stubble? These might be better achieved in the Paint room or Sculpt. Voxels are for speed in spades. One contributor, Pedro Toledo, was able to create a very creditable 'demon' after a mere 3 hours of acquaintance with voxels. I don't think you can get that level of productivity from a non-voxel (ie, polygon) application.

I have no doubt that these other apps will implement a voxel modeler someday but they will come late to the game and, of course, cost quite a bit more.

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#23 LJB

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:08 PM

"Sharp"? Do you mean, creases, eyelashes or stubble? These might be better achieved in the Paint room or Sculpt. Voxels are for speed in spades. One contributor, Pedro Toledo, was able to create a very creditable 'demon' after a mere 3 hours of acquaintance with voxels. I don't think you can get that level of productivity from a non-voxel (ie, polygon) application.

I have no doubt that these other apps will implement a voxel modeler someday but they will come late to the game and, of course, cost quite a bit more.


Oh I agree completely. Im sure if i had the time to put down Painting detail in 3d coat I could reach a finer level. but with just voxels and fast protyping This is not bad! True trying to up the voxel level to achieve finer detial does make the Sculpt unworkable for me anyhow, there is only so long i can wait for the screen to refresh. This level of detail is around where I would go b4 a retop anyhow, and when I have the cleaner edgeflow then I prefer to work in ZBrush no disrespect to this tool but its my personal preference. Another possible workflow for me is to sculpt to this level and take the high res into ZBrush and project to existing topology. I do like the Tool but I have invested in others also.

I think that this product is on the up and up, but (honestly) for many things I like other tools for now. I will continue to play with it and push it further.
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#24 Pedro Toledo

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:18 PM

I can totally understand your point LJB, I am having the same thoughts about voxels (I am having the same discussion on my thread) I am just not getting the same kind of precision I get on polygon sculpting.

Again, I loved the voxel workflow! It's fast and powerful, but maybe it is not suitable yet for a finished, precise, highly detailed model.

Still, it's an awesome software and promising technology.
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#25 Tony Nemo

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:31 PM

I can totally understand your point LJB, I am having the same thoughts about voxels (I am having the same discussion on my thread) I am just not getting the same kind of precision I get on polygon sculpting.

Again, I loved the voxel workflow! It's fast and powerful, but maybe it is not suitable yet for a finished, precise, highly detailed model.

Still, it's an awesome software and promising technology.


For "precise, highly detailed" I presume you mean the use of reference images to get a specific character. If this is the case (as it is with me), some experience with the use of same in Voxels is in my near future. My first thought was to make a suitable reference mesh in C4D and import it to 3DC for finishing. After getting a good look at voxels and the fact that reference images are usable in the voxel mode, I think the goal of a "reference mesh" may be faster in voxels than in polygons.

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#26 LJB

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 07:36 PM

I can totally understand your point LJB, I am having the same thoughts about voxels (I am having the same discussion on my thread) I am just not getting the same kind of precision I get on polygon sculpting.

Again, I loved the voxel workflow! It's fast and powerful, but maybe it is not suitable yet for a finished, precise, highly detailed model.

Still, it's an awesome software and promising technology.


Exactly, Getting there and great achievement so far. I am really enjoying working with it, fitting it in where i can.
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#27 LJB

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:09 PM

For "precise, highly detailed" I presume you mean the use of reference images to get a specific character. If this is the case (as it is with me), some experience with the use of same in Voxels is in my near future. My first thought was to make a suitable reference mesh in C4D and import it to 3DC for finishing. After getting a good look at voxels and the fact that reference images are usable in the voxel mode, I think the goal of a "reference mesh" may be faster in voxels than in polygons.


No I think Pedro is coming from the same place as me on this we just dont get the same crisper higher level finsh from the sculpting tools and Voxels. as we do with poly sculpting. Creases and sharp folds are really tricky. and to get voxels to a hig enough level to work it needs a monster of a machine i think, without the possibillity of stepping down a level.
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#28 Pedro Toledo

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:11 PM

exactly...
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#29 renderdemon

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:48 PM

As the tool is now,doing clean high frequency detailing isn't possible.
The way the tessellation works gives always isotropic density,this is good,but to have really sharp details probably you need a huge polycount,too huge for any hardware system.
To make an example,for a head,I think that even with 8 millions you can't do really sharp details(pores and skin stuff).
For medium frequency and low frequency feature, I think that volumetric sculpt is really good.

#30 LJB

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Posted 29 June 2009 - 08:50 PM

As the tool is now,doing clean high frequency detailing isn't possible.
The way the tessellation works gives always isotropic density,this is good,but to have really sharp details probably you need a huge polycount,too huge for any hardware system.
To make an example,for a head,I think that even with 8 millions you can't do really sharp details(pores and skin stuff).
For medium frequency and low frequency feature, I think that volumetric sculpt is really good.


exactly
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#31 LJB

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:54 AM

For anyone who is interested I include a Sculpting aid, which you can DL HERE
it is simply a much simplified version of the skull I built previously and is to be used to first deform with the move tool (To re proprtion) then Sculpt onto for correct facial form as illustrated with previous examples.

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Feel free to use as you like, I will make a Video to illustrate the process if interested?
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#32 LJB

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:55 AM

its in .3b format though you'll need 7zip to unpack
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#33 Javis

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 08:56 AM

You're a very accomplished sculptor! Very nice work.


I see a number of points you made about 3DC, and it would be great if you could put in some feature requests with what you think would make it better, in the feature request section so that Andrew sees it (I know he has seen this thread of course), with specific information on what you feel would tighten up voxels.


I hope you do, it will help make 3DC that much better. :)

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#34 LJB

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 11:53 AM

You're a very accomplished sculptor! Very nice work.


I see a number of points you made about 3DC, and it would be great if you could put in some feature requests with what you think would make it better, in the feature request section so that Andrew sees it (I know he has seen this thread of course), with specific information on what you feel would tighten up voxels.


I hope you do, it will help make 3DC that much better. :)


Thank you kindly. I am still exploring the realms of 3D coat, Many features I am not familiar with. I will be glad to input in the request thread.

I have quite a bit of free time over the next week my major client has broken his contract with myself and I am awaiting monies until i commence my work so I will spend the next few days exploring all possibillities and pushing further forward my 3D coat experience.

Here is something i roughed out this morning.

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#35 Taros

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 01:53 PM

Thank you kindly. I am still exploring the realms of 3D coat, Many features I am not familiar with. I will be glad to input in the request thread.

I have quite a bit of free time over the next week my major client has broken his contract with myself and I am awaiting monies until i commence my work so I will spend the next few days exploring all possibillities and pushing further forward my 3D coat experience.

Here is something i roughed out this morning.

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The start looks very good. I am corious for further progress.

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#36 LJB

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 02:31 PM

Added a face

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#37 e214

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 03:07 PM

Starting to look good.

#38 Jokermax

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Posted 30 June 2009 - 05:00 PM

looks very solid, please continue :)

#39 LJB

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 07:47 PM

e214 - Thanks

Jokermax - Thanks also

Here is an update Im pramarily working on the body its from and proportion. I have increased voxel level once already to work tighter on the face but I will work at this level b4 doing so once again. for that reason Hands are yet to be addressed. Feet have been roughed but are also waiting on upping the voxel level.

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Please let me know how you feel he is coming?

- leigh
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#40 e214

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Posted 01 July 2009 - 08:35 PM

No remarks,looks better each time.




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