Who uses Blender here at the 3DC forums

[Carlosan]

Well... Modo is a bag of bugs... last release is a joke... just read user forums... still bad animation...

like example:

http://forums.luxology.com/post.aspx?f=32&t=51250&p=710687

--------------------------------------

back to blender thread... i think we talk here about a new paradigm

 

can be an OSS be competitive vs payed soft ?

 

i think sometimes yes

 

blender is not maya, is not Lw particles sytem, is not max plugins... but thinking in time... is a worth learn it... and thrust in a promising development future

[bisenberger]

The core dev. team has now been expanded, thanks to the increase in donations.

 

From the Blender forums:

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?302975-The-core-dev-team-has-now-been-expanded-thanks-to-the-increase-in-donations

 

Go Blender!

 

I switched from modo to Blender instead of upgrading to modo 701. Really don't like the direction Luxology has taken.

[Denis]

I'm a retired hobyist, and I had bought 3D coat a couple of years ago. I didn't really use it to much at first because I was trying to learn Blender. I think I can find my way around in in blender now so I want to start using 3D and blender together. I'm not really an artist like most of you on this site But I love to modej and sculpt. It keeps my mind active. It was really great that Digman started this thread because I can ask something that I was going to ask anyway. Would one of you more experienced artists like to do a tutorial on the 3D Coat to blender pipeline. I have found some tuts online, but most are not really up to date. I for one would be really greatfull.

 

Denis

 

P.S. This was my first attempt, I still need a lot of help with the 3D Coat to blender workflow.

Edited August 6, 2013 by Denis

[bisenberger]

First attempt looks cool Denis!

[geo_n]

Well... Modo is a bag of bugs... last release is a joke... just read user forums... still bad animation...

 

Are you sure about that? I'm learning modo when I have free time which is not so much but I don't have any critical bugs yet. The forums also don't have much complaints about bug and crashes, too, compared to 3dc forum. So far modo and lw are solid releases.

[bisenberger]

Are you sure about that? I'm learning modo when I have free time which is not so much but I don't have any critical bugs yet. The forums also don't have much complaints about bug and crashes, too, compared to 3dc forum. So far modo and lw are solid releases.

http://forums.luxology.com/forum.aspx?f=33

[digman]

Pix JigSaw, inspired me to try modelling in Blender... He show me some of the ropes so I could wrap my head around the way blender models. My main modeller has been Hexagon. Thought I model a simple table to get my feet wet. It still is a wip as all the decor needs added. I did not use lathing for the cylinder base.

 

The modelling toolset for sure is growing on me as I learn more how the tools function...

 

3DCoat and Blender, will become a great workflow...

 

Table shown with 2 levels of the Subdivision Modifier and I brought it into 3DC for a quick wood texture...

Edited August 13, 2013 by digman

[bisenberger]

Nice table digman.

[chikega]

I've been a longtime Lightwave/MODO/Silo user but I've been adding Blender to the plate more and more lately. Silo was the zen of modeler's but it's development has all but ceased as the founders chase the Apple App market. I recently purchased Nvil and it's a superb replacement for Silo (Windows only). It just needs to be 64-bit to handle larger datasets. I still enjoy animating and rendering in Lightwave although I wish I could use some modeling tools in Layout. MODO has some long-standing bugs such as the bevel bug (loses symmetry on non-planar polygons).

 

I enjoy learning Blender on Cgcookie and I also follow Christopher Kuhn who is an amazing Blender modeler:

 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyzuy0na-XIxMQOPKNLodLg

 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Kuhn-Industries/345392525548878

 

 

 

 

 

[TimmyZDesign]

I'm having trouble getting my normal map to render correctly in Cycles. It renders fine in Marmoset Toolbag. I can't remember if I generated this normal map in 3D-Coat or Zbrush. Probably Zbrush.

 

In any case, it looks like Cycles "inverts" the normal map, so things that should be convex are concave. Do I need to invert the green channel or something to get it to work in Cycles? I tried to Google this problem but couldn't find much. I do vaguely remember that Digman and Michalis were discussing something like this though...but I can't find the thread.

 

This is the Marmoset render of my model:

 

And this is the Cycles render of my model:

 

Does anybody know how to fix this?

[Carlosan]

Digman - Michalis chichat... this ?

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=10419&p=81379

 

duno if it help

[Malo]

@Timmy

Yes, you have to invert it.

 

Use RGB Curve and switch the green chanel. befor you get it into the normalmap node.

[michalis]

If these n_maps are generated in Zbrush, invert the G channel.

There is some confusion in blender development though. What blender version are you using? 

[TimmyZDesign]

Oh, I figured it out! Just a moment and I'll post the new pics and explanation!

[TimmyZDesign]

Actually, no need to invert the normal map! I had it plugged into the wrong input in my node tree. I solved this by plugging the normal map into all of the BSDF nodes (at the "Normal" input). I had it previously plugged into the "displacement" input on the Material Output node (which is incorrect). I actually watched two tutorials on Youtube, and they both said to plug into the "displacement" input, but I guess those guys didn't know what they were talking about, or maybe that was how you did it in an older version of Blender. In any case, here is my new result:

 

Also, here is my node tree for those of you who might find it useful:

 

Thanks to everybody for your suggestions!

[Malo]

The most of the Blender users think, a normalmap is a bumpmap. And the bumpmap should be used in the displacement slot.

If you put the normalmap into that slot, you get some problems.

Today i run into the same problem, if a was asking for help, they told me the same. I should put my normalmap (because they think it is a bumpmap) into the displacement slot.

 

But some others, what export did you use for the normalmap in 3d coat?

I have always to switch the green chanel to show the normals correctly in cycles.

[TimmyZDesign]

@Malo: I am pretty sure I used Zbrush to bake that normal map. The model was in 3D-Coat and Maya too at various times, so I can't remember exactly where I baked it, but most likely Zbrush. When I get a chance, I will try a 3D-Coat normal map next. Thanks for the hint on using the RGB curves node to invert it!

[digman]

@Timmy,

You got it right plus you also correctly in the texture node for the normal map put it to non-color data...

 

@Malo, make sure in 3DCoat preferences you switch the normal map export to what is shown in the picture.  I do not have to switch any normal map channels. The normal maps render correctly...

Edited August 19, 2013 by digman

[michalis]

Digman - Michalis chichat... this ?

http://3d-coat.com/f...c=10419&p=81379

 

duno if it he

Many new goodies came, after these days. Normal maps are supported in cycles. 

 

Anyway, new SSS implementation in cycles. Now, three SSS modes, compatible (the old method), cubic (the correct fall off) and gaussian (this is still under development). 

Select cubic. 

Oh, not to gorget, SSS node now supports bumps. So, connect any n map or bump to the normal socket. 

Download latest builds from buildbot. always. To have fun with the "excellent" new SSS implementation. 

http://builder.blender.org/download/

 

A fast doodle, some kind of aged marble with oxides. 

 

And, something more Gigeresque (LOL)

[Tony Nemo]

Some nice work there, Michalis!

[michalis]

Thanks Tony

The new cycles SSS is a wonderful tool. Much superior to the previous one. 

The older SSS was eating details as hell, now all details are visible as they should. Of course, sculpting on a real marble is a little different than sculpting on real clay/bronze. So, once again, cycles is among the few physically correct render engines. Avoid contrasted matcaps, some smoother will be closer to the rendering. Carve a bit deeper. You may think that using displ/normal maps you can control such issues. This is not the right way. 

[Malo]

@digman

Thanks for the Info. But it sucks.

Since Blender recalculat the normals wrong, i have to invert the green chanel.

Sure, now i could use the 3d coat normalmaps without inverting, but i still have to invert all of my base textures that i have created over last years.

I think it would be easier for me if i invert always the green chanel.

 

Anyway thanks for the help.

[michalis]

@Malo

Blender calculates normal maps differently in Blender internal and cycles? 

Keep in mind, bump maps should be connected to the normal sockets of the BSDFs. (via a bump node, or a normal (for Nmaps) node. BTW recent builds of cycles have a normal socket on normalmap node, to connect a possible bump node as well) 

To connect bump (displ B&W) maps to displacement output may works. But it comes from the earlier versions of cycles. 

Displ output socket is there for other reasons. Still under heavy development and very experimental. It goes for micro displacements or similar. Especially after the implementation of pixar's subd system. 

People in blender are not confused on what normal maps are. This is why I'm there in BlenderArtists forum, to kick some asses, when nonsenses become too many LOL .  Just saying. 

[TimmyZDesign]

This is why I'm there in BlenderArtists forum, to kick some asses, when nonsenses become too many LOL .  Just saying. 

LOL!

[Malo]

Hi michalis

 

Yes, Blender calculates the normals different sine 2.50. Sure, "recalculat the normals wrong" are the wrong words that i used for it.

There are always two sides, for you and many others, Blender calulates the normals correctly. But for me, i always work in Game Engines like CyrEngine, Unreal and Gamebyro, they are wrong in Blender. You have to know, if i bake my stuff in 2.49, 3d Coat or Mudbox, or if i generate it in Gimp, Photoshop or Crazybump, i always get correct calculated normalmaps for my Game Engines, and all of this baked and generated normalmaps have to be invertet since 2.5 in Blender.

I dont want to troll or bash anybody/anything from Blender, but for me it sucks, but that is my problem.

 

I use 2.68 from Blender.org, not that ones from graphicall.

And i know now, where i have to my normalmap into it, but a few days ago, was asking for some help in the german forums i run into some problems.

I was asking, where should i put my normalmap into it, and the first one told me i should put it into the displacement slot.

The second ask me if i use a colored bump or the greychanel bump. And Timmy runs into the same problems on some tutorials.

Not sure, what is not to understand the difference between Normalmap and Bumpmap. Maybe it is only in the german forums but i see it realy often that people didnt understand the difference and call every map the defroms the surface Bump.

 

And i see and love your fight on BA, when you try to told the people whats going wrong on Multiress and other problems in Blender and they call you Troll and wont understand the problem.

 

Anyway, this is my setup at this moment on Cycles, maybe you could take a look over it, and told me what i did wrong.

 

[michalis]

I was asking, where should i put my normalmap into it, and the first one told me i should put it into the displacement slot.

The second ask me if i use a colored bump or the greychanel bump. And Timmy runs into the same problems on some tutorials.

Not sure, what is not to understand the difference between Normalmap and Bumpmap. Maybe it is only in the german forums but i see it realy often that people didnt understand the difference and call every map the defroms the surface Bump.

 

Yeah, I know... lot of nonsenses everywhere. Most of blender tutorials are full of such mistakes. And a lot of ignorance around.

I remember how many were "against" the use (or the implementation) of normal maps support in cycles !! 

Normal maps is not good, it is wrong, blah blah. 

All these people, gathered on the blender development threads, never posted their artworks (if any), these people are trolling, by all means. The only they care about is the isolation of blender and its community. 

But, this is coming to an end. Cycles is a big step to the right direction. 

 

I still recollect my first experiences on rending older 2.49 projects in bl 2.5 x. Trying to figure out what was happening with my normal maps (3dc n maps) 

 

Now I'm confused, because there was another debate on normal maps recently. They stated, they were changing the n_maps in cycles to be compatible with the old BlenderInternal engine. They decided not to, I think so. 

So, recently I haven't use normal maps, except of some baked internally in blender. I still have the idea to invert G of the RGB n maps. when exporting from zbrush. I'm totally confused about 3dcoat to blender. 

See what's happening when a majority of ignorants is voting all the time? Blender must be compatible with the whole 3d community. A democracy of untalented ignorants is not the best way. Add some idiots and you have the picture.  

 

On your posted nodes setup. 

OK, I don't quite understand. Some questions

1. You are inverting the whole normal map. Why so? 

2. You are using the same N-map to control the mix shader, why? 

3. You also use the same map (color this time) as diffuse color. 

 

OK, it is a test, but, we can talk further on this. I'll do my 3dc-blender cycles tests as well. Let's try to clear this important matter. After all this is not the blenderartists forum. LOL 

 

BTW, new fresh and, most importantly, official betas, almost daily updates from http://builder.blender.org/download/

Graphicall is good for out of official branch build tests. 

Bug reports, always under branch builds (from buildbot) 

[Malo]

True words.

 

Ok, my setup

1. Yes, because if i dont do it, my scratches on the surface are outwards and not inward, that fix that problem.

Sure i could use the export like digman posted, but i still need this normalmap for my games. Maybe i could export it twice, one for Cycles and one for the Unreal Engine.

To clearify it a little bit more, i want to render my gamemodel in cyles and show some good previews befor i go into the game engine.

 

2. No, the normalmap is only for the Glossy and Diffuse shader. The other one is a Specmap and should control the glossy amount on my diffuse shader.

 

3. No, there are three different textures in use, Diffuse, Normal and Spec-Map.

Sorry that i dont explain it correctly.

 

The texture with the power node goes into the Mix-Shader Factor, that is the Speculary Map.

The Texture the goes into the Diffuse Shader is the Diffusemap.

The last texture is the normalmap.

 

I dont wrote or ask anymore in BA.

 

Thanks for the link.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Malo

[michalis]

OK Malo, understood (the spec map, has to be B&W, when you use it as value, values are B&W)

So, here's my quick test. 

A quick nonsense voxel ~5M

Auto retopology, manual UVs. (I did try to have a lot of islands, just to test if anything is wrong with the n-maps) 

To make it more difficult, 1024x1024 px maps, jpg. 

3dcoat Prefs: as maya baking method, maya-blender compatibility. I'm confused what maya method means (G inverted?) and what maya compatibility means then. 

I tried to make renderers look similar. Some kind of jitter in the cycles renderer, because I forgot to subdivide UVs (added 2 levels of subd for rendering issues) 

[Malo]

Thank you very much. One little question.

You use a Fresnel, could i put my specularmap instead into it or is there a different way to use it?

Edited August 21, 2013 by Malo

[michalis]

A specular map is a B&W map right? 

Here, a possible setup, a filter. See, I connect glossy BSDF to the second socket. first or second socket works like inverting the map. The value stops the white values (#1 socket), the black values on #2 socket

You can always add curves, or coloramp, or math multiply values etc) to possibly fine tune these maps. 

Similar results can be achieved if you just connect the spec map as color to the glossy BSDF. However, it won't let you play with spec colors then.