Advanced Member popwfx Posted January 22, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Just a quick question about the 3DC interface while manually retopo'ing. How does one ensure that vertices along the X-axis (when modeling with symmetry on the X-axis) are welded and not overlapping. Is there any way to prevent overlapping (across the X-axis when using symmetry) vertices and just make the vertices snap and stop at the X-axis? So what I mean is I want to make sure polys created with the Quad tool etc are flush with the X-axis and not just mirroring across it when I accidentally pass the X-axis a few mm. I mean I know how to do this in other modelers like LW. But in 3DCoat when modeling with symmetry how do you do that? Or if you have accidentally created some overlapping polys across the X-axis, how can I easily (within 3DC) weld those 2 vertices together at the X =0 point? (What I've been doing in the past is just exporting and cleaning this up in LW. I'd rather make it clean within 3DC. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted January 22, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I think such 'overlaps' are welded properly when Symmetry is set. I have never found any overlaps in a finished retopo although a gap is possible where the vertice was placed on the work side and not at the midpoint (or beyond). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member popwfx Posted January 22, 2013 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 ok. so if I use the Select tool on a vertex that is supposed to be on the X-Axis, and I move it, does it automatically "unweld"? Why can I sometimes separate them away from the X-Axis? And if It snaps, why doesn't the connected edge highlight properly, it seems that sometimes there is a bit of overlap even with symmetry turned on. Are you saying with Symmetry on, as long as you place a vertex on the midpoint X-Axis or beyond then it will create a clean poly with that vertex snapped to X = 0? thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member alvordr Posted January 22, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 By default, the symmetry snaps the points to the center on the appropriate axis and when you apply symmetry it welds them. This is normal among most 3D apps. If you're finding this isn't the case, then you may be pushing the vertex too far past the plane of symmetry. I suggest playing with the mirror snapping setting at the top, when your symmetry is active. You can also play with the auto snap settings, also found at the top. However, those are more for getting the retopo mesh to "snap" to the high-poly/Voxel reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member popwfx Posted January 22, 2013 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 By default, the symmetry snaps the points to the center on the appropriate axis and when you apply symmetry it welds them. This is normal among most 3D apps. If you're finding this isn't the case, then you may be pushing the vertex too far past the plane of symmetry. I suggest playing with the mirror snapping setting at the top, when your symmetry is active. You can also play with the auto snap settings, also found at the top. However, those are more for getting the retopo mesh to "snap" to the high-poly/Voxel reference. I'm not sure what you mean. I have the default setting of Mirror Snapping to 40%, and although I'm placing them close to the X-Axis, the vertices (when using the Quads tool) don't seem to snap hard to the X-axis (if at all) - I can tell it doesn't seem to be welding them when I see the edges highlight like this using the Select Tool: And to ask again what I did in the other thread about Symmetry (and this time hopefully avoid the more witty responses and get to the real cause): Why doesn't the symmetry plane reach the extents of the object. I did select apply symmetry to all layers but that seemed to do nothing. thanks for any help with this... These are examples of the few things that are simple, but terminology (like "apply symmetry to all layers" in the retopo menu should really say "apply symmetry to all SubObjects" right?) confuses me as it ambiguous within the application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted January 22, 2013 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 The only way I found to make the symmetry plane to appear correctly is to select another voxel layer and then to switch back to the original layer. Also turning symmetry off and back on seems to do the trick at times. Andrew, I think fixed this once but seems to have returned. The welding problem along the symmetry line you are having is a Real Issue and will need a video Mantis bug report... Also sometimes when you apply symmetry to all layers or one layer 3DCoat will create extra polygons along the symmetry axis and squish them all together. I have my own workaround, if you want to see if it works for you contact me through Skype sometime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member popwfx Posted January 22, 2013 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Also, I noticed something about the symmetry plane. Hitting shift+A to fit to viewport works in the paint room but in the retopo room it only goes to the extent of the symmetry plane. As if 3DC thinks the bounding box of the loaded work is just as big as the symmetry plane. So maybe this is a bug? Thanks for your offer. I will take you up on that soon, but at the moment I'm going to plug on through and then I'll clean up the model in Lightwave along the X-axis and mirror, but it will be good to know how to avoid this step in 3DCoat in the future... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member alvordr Posted January 22, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 I'm not sure why it matters that the visual plane not being large enough is a big issue, as long as it's behaving correctly, otherwise. That said, if it's a visual cue bug then it still should be fixed. I had one issue where the symmetry plane gets offset away from the subject, but it was a matter of right-clicking in the voxel layer and choosing 'To global space' as Greg mentioned to me. Meanwhile, as far as the symmetry not seemingly snapping, I would test the mesh by exporting it to another app and seeing if there are stray points or even moving the ones on those edges to see if they're disconnected. I ran into a problem, today, where after trying to do Stroke topology on a mesh it gave me inner quads that doubled up INSIDE my mesh. I caught them and fixed it. 3DC may not be perfect, but I have yet to see a modeling program that is. I've used tons. This one is about as quick and accurate as it gets for the major functions it's trying to tackle. Usually when a program like this is trying to be everything to everyone it falls flat. I love 3DC, even with the issues it has. I can see that Andrew and his team are working hard to get stuff done. I noticed an email I skimmed over when I first got 3DC less than 2 months ago that covers the changes during the last update. I had no idea until now how much had really been added and how significant those changes are: http://3d-coat.com/3d-coat-37/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member popwfx Posted January 23, 2013 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Hopefully, you are not misunderstanding how much I love 3DCoat. But the reason I post questions like that in this new user forum (even though I've been using it awhile), is in case there is something I've missed with the way it operates. That being said, I don't think my more frequent posts are complaining in nature. This app has made amazing leaps and bounds and of course no 3D app is perfect, but there's nothing wrong with questioning how or why it does what it does even when others think it is a minor quirk. The symm plane not being big enough is more of a visual cue so that at a glance you can be sure it is creating the polys on the other side. When you are close up modeling an ear lobe (because we only have 1 viewport) it means you don't know if its actually on or not. Of course this isn't a show stopper, but it's nice to know why. Clearly this issue is related to why the Fit to Screen doesn't work consistently between paint and retopo room, so I hoped my questions would bring that to light as sometimes these little issue can cascade. Don't get me wrong, I think 3DC is the bees knees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted January 23, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 The non-conforming symmetry plane is certainly worthy of discussion. I have no experience with retopologizing a model made in another app, so I have never come across this situation. Is this the result of importing "without voxelizing"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member alvordr Posted January 23, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 I wasn't taking your post as complaining. I just wanted to note how much I like 3DC at the moment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member alvordr Posted January 23, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 23, 2013 Retopo in 3ds Max doesn't show the plane at all, (as far as I know). It simply duplicates on one side what you do on the other. Frankly, if you're not seeing the changes on one side vs the other, this IS a problem. Otherwise, it seems cosmetic, yet I can see the concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted January 24, 2013 Report Share Posted January 24, 2013 when you retopo the right side with symmetry active and Retopo>Virtual mirror mode is active vertices along the X-axis (when modeling with symmetry on the X-axis) are not welded when you finish then apply symmetry set Retopo>Virtual mirror mode inactive vertices along the X-axis are autowelded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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