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3D-Coat 3.7 updates thread


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OK, Andrew, first hello it's morning here in South Texas. I see a number of videos have been posted.

Seems like the general things to determine what is causing them is:

Dotting a lower brush speed. ( Artman's screencaps good example)

Extreme angle dotting. I saw that on a video and I was getting the same effect

Dotting at a higher polygon count taking into account that a faster sculpting speed is not as fast in speed as working on a 250,000 sphere.

The videos show some of the same areas I addressed in my postings.

@DavidF Good observations though I do not think anyone is unhappy with the new brush or asking the impossible but just areas that need some tweaking still.

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I get good speed without needing to set depth to 200 using those settings.

Speed is even good when remove stretching is on.

-1023 pressure levels

-pen sensitivity to 1.0

-Wacom one notch below maximum Soft.(very important)

(Intuos4)

Draw brush,Clay brush and Mud work all very good with those settings,very smooth regular strokes unless hand is jittering.

Creaseclay and Flattenclay are still a little slow but works better and faster without pen pressure,

but using Creaseclay dotting effect is still there if stroke is too fast

(probably because the brush is doing heavier operations pinch+draw+adaptive tess...its not a big problem I just need to learn to use it slower)

Mud2 with noisedegree set to 0% is very fun to work with :)

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I changed my settings for this test...

No spacing, Never use paint with dabs. I just saw that it was deselecting if you selected it.

No falloff

No focal shift

25 depth

radius and depth pen selected. first one in e-panel

No remove stretching selected

last default alpha on the top right.

Preferences brush sensitivity set a 1

I meg sphere.

intuos tablet 3 tablet

I changed my settings according to Andrew's instructions for testing. I can make better looking strokes using my own alphas and brush settings...

but this is what they look like at these settings so far. I will test more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WMwnDUZzbw&feature=youtu.be

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I think that depth jittering at slow speed appears if you set very sensitive settings for tablet pressure. In this case any manual juttering will be very obvious.

But what I can't believe - that it was not the same in previous versions.

Andrew, I know some depth jittering is to be expected but my settings are not very sensitive for my tablet...

Another video on the way...

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Andrew, yes my brush sensitivity was set to 1. But like other has said that this is going into right direction for sure.

I need to do more testing with this because I might have some odd settings some where ether 3d-coat settings or wacom settings.

My bamboo tablet is very old too. Maybe I need to update my tablet to get better results.

Artman, Thanks for pointing mud2 0% noise. I'm loving the feel of that brush. It became my favorite brush.

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Ok, this test is with my own settings.

20% focal shift

20% falloff

40 depth

remove stretching enabled

my own alpha

first brush in e-panel, depth and radius

In the test I had depth unlocked first

In the second part of the test depth was locked

Also watch my strokes, the lighter pressure ones produce more bumps but once I press harder reaching full pen pressure they become smoother. This is more constant pressure similar to a mouse stroke. I know some jittering can be produced by the user but I do not think it is all me and my tablet settings.

Second part of video is with depth locked. The strokes are much smoother as it simulates a mouse as far as depth is concerns.

All in all the brush routine is headed in the right direction, I do like it, though I maintain that the bumps are not all user related but I will test more...

I do have one more test, on the complete settings I use for this new brush routine, video coming soon...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTYUaXdtiHY&feature=youtu.be

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I'm happy to say everything seems much smoother to me, especially on those particular brushes. That's with mouse or my Intuos 3.

BTW the UV Path tool says "Maximize Strightness" it should be "Straightness"

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Here is another test using one my own brush creations using the general brush. You can create your own brush for those who do not know...

Titled:

Form builder

Now this brush does not have the bumps at slow stroke speed but is very smooth and even.

Later in the video you will see when I increased the brush speed and I started getting the dot effect.

The above is one reason I maintain that the bumps are not all user related. Yes, I do think the jitters are caused somewhat by user hand motion and pressure, tablet setttings etc but it is not the complete cause of the bumps

The Form builder works great a low brushing speed but gets the dots at a higher brushing speed

The Draw brush works great at a higher brushing speed but gets the dots a lower brushing speed.

Opps, I forgot to name the video (Form Builder, as it not the basic general brush)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xBkP0i4S0M&feature=youtu.be

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A repost, deleted the other has I thought well, heck beatkitano put a face to his quick concept work, I agreed it is easier now to get a low polygon sculpt going now... This one is 255,000 tris...

I been spending the afternoon with the new brush routine and it given's the brushes I use the most a boost in quality. I use only a few default ones and some I created .

I knocked out a concept head using those brushes in a real fashion. Yepper, headed in the right direction. B)

All work done in surface mode and done on my old ancient one core windows computer. I like keeping it around for testing, if I can do sculpts on it, well then I have no excuse not do it on my faster computer or kick myself in the old arse.... :blink:

post-518-0-79308800-1336347541_thumb.jpg

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Keep going Andrew, We beg thee, keep working on the brushes as the man in the sculpt is pleading...

I will keep working on this sculpt as Andrew works on the brushes.... a test sculpt...

Now this is not serious but throwing some humor with a little plea...

615,000 polygon tris now...

post-518-0-49743400-1336355629_thumb.jpg

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Keep going Andrew, We beg thee, keep working on the brushes as the man in the sculpt is pleading...

I will keep working on this sculpt as Andrew works on the brushes.... a test sculpt...

Now this is not serious but throwing some humor with a little plea...

615,000 polygon tris now...

Ok, after some more serious experiment (read, not on primitives) I've to apologize to Andrew, even if some brush are useless (draw for instance is a mess), and other really perfectible (creaseclay and a few others), the overall changes are pretty nice.

You have to fiddle with the settings a lot (I ended up dividing brush sensitivity by 2), and carefully avoid some brushes (absolute brush is creating holes in some cases) but the strokes have gained a nice boost in the precision area.

I'll post some test in the coming weeks.

To be honest I didn't think I would give 3dcoat a try again for sculpting.

Keep polishing it andrew, don't stop now on the brushes you're starting to nailing it.

Quick sculpt, 175k tris (I think I couldn't have achieved this with previous version at this low resolution in such a limited time, roughly 1h30):

175kNewBrushes.jpg

ajaja, thats pretty cool digman, and thats pretty cool too BeatKitano. I agree with you both, I was also leaning towards sculpting in other programs... now I'm back to 3d-coat. I also sculpted something with the new brushes... Made from a sphere in little less than two hours... no more bumpy surfaces, much more control over the skin... I'm a much happier sculptor...

57192065.jpg

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I've been following along in regard to the new brush code and while mouse sculpting felt much better, tablet sculpting was very blobby.

I tried various settings using both an intuos 2 & an intuos 4; re-installing the wacom driver on one problem machine, but nothing helped.

Then I tried the GL version of 3DC and tablet sculpting works perfectly with GL 3DC!

(On both XPsp3 32 bit non CUDA and win7 64 bit CUDA)

So maybe this is a graphics driver or a Direct X issue, rather than a tablet driver issue.

Andrew do you get the same results in both the DX and GL versions, and if so what NVidia driver are you using?

-Jeff

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Then I tried the GL version of 3DC and tablet sculpting works perfectly with GL 3DC!

(On both XPsp3 32 bit non CUDA and win7 64 bit CUDA)

So maybe this is a graphics driver or a Direct X issue, rather than a tablet driver issue.

Andrew do you get the same results in both the DX and GL versions, and if so what NVidia driver are you using?

WAU!! and confirmed. With GL version my tablet works much better. Really smooth. Hope This helps Andrew.

Thanks for finding this Run.

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GL better than DX confirmed!

Sculpting with the new brush engine in the GL version is much better than in DX. Not to compare! I use GL up from now.

Best wishes

Chris

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Unfortunately I still have lumps like I always have. I've never been able to manage sculpting smooth areas in 3DC. I just have to make it lumpy and do my best to smooth it later. This part of an older model was done with the new brushes.

2012-05-07_0405.png

Part of the problems seems to be related to LiveClay tools. I end up with small splotches that are denser than other areas. many of my bumps seem to be where these splotches are.

2012-05-07_0409.png

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I've been following the latest comments and can confirm there is a problem.

3DC options:

Brush pressure levels number = 2047

Brush sensitivity = 1

Pen depth dependent on pen pressure = On (Pen icon showing instead of mouse icon)

Brush options = All off or set to 0 except zero pressure radius (0.15) and depth modulator (1)

Wacom driver options:

Tip feel = slider in the exact middle

Tilt sensitivity = Normal

If Draw and Clay are set so that depth is dependent on pen pressure (pen icon showing) I get the blobiness others are seeing. If I set it so that the mouse icon is showing, the stroke is perfectly smooth. With LiveClay however, it doesn't matter which icon is showing and strokes come out terrible with either mode selected. My actual mouse seems to work fine though and overall performance is quite good with large brushes on high poly meshes so far as frame rate goes. It's just the quality of the stroke that seems to be off.

Another issue I'm seeing is that there doesn't seem to be any pressure variation detected at all. All pen strokes act as if I'm drawing with a mouse (ie: constant pressure). I used the Wacom Tablet Properties to check and the test bar does vary depending on how hard I press, so I know it's not a driver issue. Here are my current system specs:

3.7.11 x64 DX CUDA || Windows 7 SP1 x64 || Nvidia GTX460 v296.10 || Intel Core i7 875K @ 3.7 GHz || 8GB DDR2 Memory || 3DConnexion SpaceMouse Pro v3.15.2 || Wacom Intuos4 v6.1.7-3

PS: I've been making sure to set my levels to 2047 each time I restart 3D Coat since it doesn't seem to want to remember this setting. Hopefully others are remembering to do this too and additionally making sure the pen icon is showing and not the mouse one which could give the false impression nothing is wrong.

Edit: Attached an image of LiveClay. Left one is pen stroke, right one is mouse stroke.

post-9206-0-32176700-1336392729_thumb.jp

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I have discovered something else...

Testing paramaters

DX version...

Draw Brush

I million polygon sphere

First brush in e-panel (radius and depth)

Make a slow brush stroke, no remove stretching enabled, no spacing, last top default alpha on right.

Result---- bumpy strokes

Now hold down the W key for wireframe mode. Keep holding down the W key as you make a slow stroke.

Result--- The stroke is improved quite a bit...

Do the same test with a medium speed stroke.

The video was interfering with the strokes a little some I am putting up screencaps...

The slow strokes on the left in the picture shown is without wireframe mode on. The right strokes are with wireframe on as I make the stroke

Same with the medium speed stroke.

The first picture shows the medium stroke speed with and without wireframe mode on while brushing.

The strokes are improved quite a bit with wireframe on when you are brushing the stroke, seen very clearly in the

medium speed stroke.

The blobbing effect pretty much goes away.

On the slow strokes on the right, the varying of the stroke is what I would consider hand jitters effecting the stroke as it does not appear on the medium stroke speed..

If someone could test and confirm this, it would be greatly appreciated...

post-518-0-84241400-1336400607_thumb.jpg

post-518-0-93258600-1336402104_thumb.jpg

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Confirmed: Open GL, yes is very smooth using the draw brush...

no spacing, no remove stretching enabled

I am using a Radeon video card.

Edit. When you make your brush radius small the bumps do return somewhat... Larger radius works better....

Edit 2 It appears a little buggy, I was starting to get some bumps on larger strokes and light pressure creating more bumps...

Edit 3 I tested with wireframe mode on while brushing and in the GL version your brush strokes are improved also... (see 2 post above)

OK, will wait for next upload for further testing...

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So happy that the brushes are receiving some attention! It appears that there is progress being made so I'm really looking forward to trying them out..

lol BeatKitano - thanks, although I'm so busy that I don't have a lot of time for personal work these days! Nice speed-sculpt, BTW.. :]

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@Zeddicus: About the pressure level not saving, I think this may be linked to a compatibility option in the wacom driver's panel:

Try deactivating that, saving and see if it reloads properly.

It was already off, so instead I turned it on and then ran 3D Coat afterwards. When I went into the preferences, I discovered it had changed to 1023 all on it's own lol. Pressure once again works like it's supposed to as well (ie: variable instead of constant). It seems clear to me that 3D Coat lacks compatibility with newer Wacom tablets and may partly explain why Andrew isn't seeing the same issues (Intuos3 has 1024 levels, while newer models have 2048). Hopefully this is something Andrew plans on fixing with his next release. Thanks for pointing that option out, BeatKitano! :)

PS: The 3.7.11 GL x64 version has the same bumpy brush issues here too btw, so it's not just you.

Edit: In both the DX and GL versions the problem with LC seems linked to pressure. If I make light strokes, they turn out pretty smooth. The harder I press, the worse they get though.

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Yes I can also confirm that the GL version is very good right now! (version 3.7.11). I do not experience the bumpiness with this version. There is a small amount of lag with slow brush strokes however. But in general the GL version is very nice for sculpting right now! :D

If I use the DX version, I get a lot of bumpiness in various brushes in surface mode (especially the Draw brush).

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GL beats the DX version by far. I have the same experience like the others above. I use a Intuos 4 with the latest drivers, v6.3.1 w3.

Something about the pressure, I get good results with the pressure compatibility checked (in the tablet properties) and a value of 1023 in 3DC's Preferences.

With pressure compatibility unchecked and a value of 32000 in 3DC's Prefs the response of the tablet is even better.

One more thing no one mentioned before, the InflateClay Brush is broken :(

You have to move your mouse or pen, otherwise the brush wont inflate. In versions before you just had to press left mouse button or press your pen down

and the brush worked. I tired everything (airbrush, use falloff, checked and unchecked), nada. Please fix it cause I like this brush. :D

Specs: i950, GTX460 v295.73, W7 SP1 x64, 3DC 3.7.11 Cuda, 16GB Ram, Intuos4 v6.3.1 w3

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New Brush improvements are a step in Right direction for sure, I have a couple of observations, Smooth seems less strong? Not sure if my sensitivity settings got a little messed up with testing new version. also I have instances when after making an alteration to size or depth (possibly even rotating model), the stroke does not want to go down on first attempt. ie when i first touch the sculpt after altering the setting nothing happens. This happens alot now in latest build.

Anyways GL does as others mention feel better until i get to higher volume resolution when i found myself switching back to DX to continue. But did enjoy sculpting with it again with better sensitivity, Keep going Andrew, Thanks for your efforts, :D

quick sculpt -

43.png

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Andrew Absolute brush is presently incompatible with LC or RemoveStretching,I suggest it should reset vertex data when brush is selected instead of when user enter surface mode.

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