Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 5, 2014 Author Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Lets see what the future brings. For me it is still a big waste of time to including Cycles into 3d Coat. It's one thing to say you won't use it. It's another to flat out dismiss it as a waste. It would NOT be a waste. Nor is it a matter of developing a render engine from the ground up. It's a PLUGIN. Andrew just has to port it to the app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Malo Posted July 5, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I know you dont like the PBR stuff, because you are not interestet in Game Design. And thats Ok for me. Anyway, as i sayed above, we both wont find a solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 big trouble... 3DC use the shader system to bake... need the users to learn cycles just to bake anything ? and... which gameengine or renderer use Open Shading Language ??? OSL is not a common language... ... i hope no, please dont force the userbase to learn it... is not a smart play, not at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Aleksey Posted July 5, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I don't do anything game related. But realtime pretty texture painting seems like a much more useful product ( even for people not in the game industry). Then porting a render engine to a program which has its main strengths lying in the ability to be a swiss army knife in the CG industry. Which can be used by people in any package. By implementing something like Cycles, to me it looks like a serious shift towards trying to attract the Hobbyist market. which kinda bums me out, since its such an awesome application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 5, 2014 Author Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I don't do anything game related. But realtime pretty texture painting seems like a much more useful product ( even for people not in the game industry). Then porting a render engine to a program which has its main strengths lying in the ability to be a swiss army knife in the CG industry. Which can be used by people in any package. By implementing something like Cycles, to me it looks like a serious shift towards trying to attract the Hobbyist market. which kinda bums me out, since its such an awesome application. Why? Because Cycles comes from an OpenSource app? Cycles is ahead of the curve more so than many 3rd party renderers in Max, Maya C4D, etc. If there is anything truly impressive about Blender, it's Cycles. 3D Coat adding that as an integrated plugin doesn't mean Blender's stigma has to come with it. It's good all on it's own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolyHertz Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 If the cycles developers are interested in growing their userbase I'd think that making it available as a plugin for Max/Maya/Modo would be the first step. Are there plans to explore that angle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?341805-Cycles-Standalone-with-maya&highlight=cycles+standalone As far as I know, the standalone is still a work in progress and is not exactly the highest priority at the moment (though it's far enough along to render a wide array of scenes in).Like J said, you will need to write a plugin for it if you want to use it with Maya. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Im asking at blenderartist forum what happend with apache license now that Brecht -the full time Cycles developer- left Blender Institute to join Solidangle - Arnold render dev- http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?324978-Cycles-Standalone-Engine/page2&highlight=cycles+standalone One thing is cycles inside blender with CPL license, and another one Cycles standalone with Apache license. Still no official reply. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brecht van Lommel napisał: Many thanks to all contributors and users. I’m especially grateful to Ton for supporting my work on Cycles. I think we have pushed open source production rendering quite a bit further, and I hope to see you all continue doing awesome things with Cycles.As for other Blender development, I’ll continue to be involved as a volunteer.Many important features in past releases have already been implemented by other contributors, and I expect that the improvements will keep coming.In July I will start a new job at Solid Angle, working on the Arnold renderer. This unfortunately means I will no longer be able to add new features to Cycles, though I’ll still be around and happy to assist other developers. Thanks, Brecht. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 5, 2014 Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 I forgot to link dingto tweeter page -Cycles standalone current developer- https://twitter.com/dingto ---------- And the info about Apache Licensing Cycles render engine released with permissive license Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Aleksey Posted July 5, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 5, 2014 Why? Because Cycles comes from an OpenSource app? Cycles is ahead of the curve more so than many 3rd party renderers in Max, Maya C4D, etc. If there is anything truly impressive about Blender, it's Cycles. 3D Coat adding that as an integrated plugin doesn't mean Blender's stigma has to come with it. It's good all on it's own. Nothing to do with stigma. Just not a useful feature in a pipeline. Because you'll most likely be using another application to produce the final animations. I think 3d coats strength right now lies in the fact that it can be added to pretty much any pipeline quite seamlessly without anyone noticing. Especially for re-topology, uv unwrapping and painting. ( for the non-hardcore sculptors). These are things that are generally a lot more challenging in other apps. Adding Cycles will not contribute to 3D coat becoming an industry standard in any way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 6, 2014 Author Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Nothing to do with stigma. Just not a useful feature in a pipeline. Because you'll most likely be using another application to produce the final animations. I think 3d coats strength right now lies in the fact that it can be added to pretty much any pipeline quite seamlessly without anyone noticing. Especially for re-topology, uv unwrapping and painting. ( for the non-hardcore sculptors). These are things that are generally a lot more challenging in other apps. Adding Cycles will not contribute to 3D coat becoming an industry standard in any way. Look at Cleitus' work...he produces some amazing work, and all of it is rendered right in 3D Coat. Everyone here trying to poo-poo the idea of Cycles in 3D Coat, is looking at it from a Game pipeline perspective. No render is going to matter to you, even if Andrew could port VRay for free. But you see, that's the problem, right there. You aren't thinking about the other 60% of the userbase. Again, having it directly in 3D Coat means you can sculpt some crazy good stuff and not have to go through the laborious task of retopologizing, UV Layout and Texture Baking. All the same reasons people wanted Vertex Painting would be reasons to use Cycles to render out Turntables or Product Shots. Graphic Designers, Jewelry designers. For the same reasons you want to be able to see realtime output in the viewport, via PBR shaders, people who want to render stills or turntables would like to stay in 3D Coat if possible. You guys are only considering what it could do for you....not how it could benefit others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 6, 2014 Author Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Some of Cleitus' work. Pretty sure some long time 3D Coat artists here would like the prospects of having a nice renderer inside the app. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 can i ask... Ranger, what do you think about the actual shader creation inside 3DC ? what do you think about Bretch -the cycles developer- not more working at blender institute so he stop his work in any future cycles development ? do you know there is 2 cycles version ? cycles working internally inside blender (Bretch development, gpl license) and cycles working externally as standalone app (DingTo development, apache license) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 6, 2014 Author Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 Brecht said there were others working on the render already, and that he would still try to assist them on a volunteer basis....so if they hit a brick wall, I'm sure he'll weigh in from time to time. It's already pretty darn impressive. I'm not saying PBR shaders wouldn't a great feature. I'm just reiterating what Andrew told me months ago, and everybody is trying to pee all over the idea. It's like Andrew's 5 programmers can't chew gum and program too. If Andrew and Raul are working on a material system, what's to stop them from using a PBR shader system for the viewport and plug Cycles in for rendering stills, turntables and camera fly through's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 6, 2014 Report Share Posted July 6, 2014 the shader system... for me, the shader system... why to learn GLSL or OSL if CGFX is industry standard ? do you worked with cycles nodes ? to work with is complex, very slow and harder to optimize compared to vray or arnold... artist need fast responses, 3DC shader system must avoid 100s sliders or unintuitive values Aim for Common language and work "out of the box" (your link to ShaderFX is a great example) all this points can be watched in this slides http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16362&p=110573 why to focus only in cycles ? why not to put force to develop a strong API to let developers make plugins for any renderer in market ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 7, 2014 Author Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 the shader system... for me, the shader system... why to learn GLSL or OSL if CGFX is industry standard ? do you worked with cycles nodes ? to work with is complex, very slow and harder to optimize compared to vray or arnold... artist need fast responses, 3DC shader system must avoid 100s sliders or unintuitive values Aim for Common language and work "out of the box" (your link to ShaderFX is a great example) all this points can be watched in this slides http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16362&p=110573 why to focus only in cycles ? why not to put force to develop a strong API to let developers make plugins for any renderer in market ? I'm not the decision maker in any way. I can't even get Andrew to create a shell/thickness tool in the Retopo room. So, my opinion literally is worth about 2 cents, not counting inflation and market fluxuations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted July 7, 2014 Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 yeah, but you have a valid opinion -sometimes impetuous but valid - as old contributor you have more possibilities to meet the inn development. ty for your time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor ajz3d Posted July 7, 2014 Contributor Report Share Posted July 7, 2014 I'd really like to see Cycles (or even something like Yebis) implemented into 3DC. I have some vertex painted sculptures that I'd like to render out, but I can never find the time to retopo them in order to pass them to my rendering app. Having a good quality native renderer would help a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member matty686 Posted July 16, 2014 Member Report Share Posted July 16, 2014 I think we should have cycles in 3d coat I have used cycles and love it however I don't make any money from my use of 3d coat so who am I to say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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