philnolan3d Posted May 28, 2009 Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Arrg This is driving me crazy! Every time I import a model and start painting on it I get about 10 minutes into painting and then look down and realize I've been painting on Layer 0. Please have it start with layer 1 already selected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted May 28, 2009 Contributor Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Arrg This is driving me crazy! Every time I import a model and start painting on it I get about 10 minutes into painting and then look down and realize I've been painting on Layer 0. Please have it start with layer 1 already selected. Mine invariably starts on layer 1. The problem I have encountered is making a nice UV set and then, when painting, discovering that the preferred UVs are gone and some default UV is getting the paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted May 28, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 Arrg This is driving me crazy! Every time I import a model and start painting on it I get about 10 minutes into painting and then look down and realize I've been painting on Layer 0. Please have it start with layer 1 already selected. I say just lock Layer 0 to us mere mortals and be done with it I NEVER intentionally paint any info on that layer just to be on the safe side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Oliver Thornton Posted May 28, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 28, 2009 I agree with you guys. By default Layer 0 should be locked to prevent mistakes and limit confusion. For a new user learning 3DC, there is no real explanation why you should or should not use Layer 0. If we lock it by default and change the name to something like Mesh Layer it would not only prevent accidentally using the layer, but it would give an answer to the people that always ask "What is Layer 0 for?" -Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member geo_n Posted May 29, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I agree with you guys. By default Layer 0 should be locked to prevent mistakes and limit confusion. For a new user learning 3DC, there is no real explanation why you should or should not use Layer 0. If we lock it by default and change the name to something like Mesh Layer it would not only prevent accidentally using the layer, but it would give an answer to the people that always ask "What is Layer 0 for?"-Oliver Ok, I dont know what it is for. Can anyone explain why I shouldn't touch it even if I never have. Its like the bg layer in ps. I never touch it and do my edits on top layers but what is layer 0 in 3dc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member David Walters Posted May 29, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I would approach this differently by asking: What's wrong with painting on layer 0? Is it that you can't move the layers above below it / move Layer 0 up? I would say fix that. Delete on layer zero and you get holes in your mesh? add an option to show the scrolling checker-board effect as a guide if you want it - ala photoshop. I use this "hole" feature for simple fences and things though -- it's good! In my opinion there should not be a "privileged" layer - just an invisible mesh and a bunch of texture layers splatted on top and blended together. I'm maybe missing something important -- but it seems to me that it's not far off from a universal layer system with a few tweaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted May 29, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 There's nothing wrong with having a Layer 0 per se, but try this. Paint some detail on Layer 0 on a fresh model with UVs. Then Try erasing what you've just done. The model goes completely transparent but not with variable alpha it just obliterates the 'base coat' It's a matter of my opinion but I feel that it would be a much more solid method to just have a base coat colour 50% grey that is hidden to us and won't allow for the mesh to become transparent. Then we can have this Layer 0 as a base layer that we can then do whatever we want to. p.s. sorry to David who already explained the holes in the mesh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member David Walters Posted May 29, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Paint some detail on Layer 0 on a fresh model with UVs. Then Try erasing what you've just done. The model goes completely transparent but not with variable alpha it just obliterates the 'base coat' Ah, yes - this should blend smoothly. Good for cob-webs, etc. ! It's a matter of my opinion but I feel that it would be a much more solid method to just have a base coat colour 50% grey that is hidden to us and won't allow for the mesh to become transparent. Then we can have this Layer 0 as a base layer that we can then do whatever we want to. If you'll permit me to combine our ideas you should treat this hidden base coat as more of a render option for the mesh itself - with it's options moved away from being a "fake layer" for clarity. It should have three options: invisible (for my fencing/cob-web example), checker-board and solid diffuse/ambient/specular colours (default: 50% grey) This would match most realtime graphics systems (e.g. DirectX's "material color", .MTL files "Ka", "Kd" parameters, etc.) - and it certainly matches my experience and expectations. The thing is 3d-coat sort-of permits this already, it's just a bit clunky to flood fill layer 0 to do it. Not being able to move Layer 0 up is a geniunely restrictive problem though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 Paint some detail on Layer 0 on a fresh model with UVs. Then Try erasing what you've just done. The model goes completely transparent but not with variable alpha it just obliterates the 'base coat' That's how you paint transparency maps in 3DC. http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1889 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted May 29, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 That's how you paint transparency maps in 3DC.http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1889 *Corrected* I just tried a test with this and it works with Full Alpha. Strange as the last time I tried doing this it gave me only Alpha Test. Nice one -------------------- Hmm.. I've just been playing with this a bit more and, while in theory, creating textures with transparency this way is sound in practice, it doesn't quite work as well with multiple objects. The transparency sorting seems very messed up. For instance.. I'm creating a creature with the Fur as a separate object to the body. The fur texture is using transparency and transferring the alpha channel from my game asset texture means that the parts of the body behind the fur are also transparent. I can see the background right through the body. Anyway I'm sure this is useful in certain instances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member jnothing Posted September 11, 2013 Member Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 I have a problem. A big problem apparently. I was not aware of this layer 0 issue, and painted it up with my skin base layer. Now it's got paint on it, not just the base info. Is there a way to fix this without re-painting my whole model? model is in separate pieces, nicely painted, but has many layers. I'm scared. Can someone help? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psmith Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Never paint on layer 0 - it's reserved. Always start on 1. I don't know of a way to reverse this (I don't think anyone has that many undos in memory). Greg Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member jnothing Posted September 11, 2013 Member Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) So there's no way to trick it/ re-import a model.. ? this is very , very bad. Very bad. I'm trying the baking method but I have a feeling that won't work either. Can't it be reset to just white? Nothing? Why on earth isn't there a way to "reset layer 0"? it doesn't seem like under the hood, it would be hard to make that a feature. Is there any way you could help me with this or help in trying to make it work? I don't know if it's possible to get the model looking like I have it now. One crucial thing is also; there is no way to make color swatches. So I'd have to screen shot everything and use photoshop to determine the colors, yet another headache on top of re-painting. Layer 0 shouldn't be paint-able if all it does is screw up your project. I'm very confused. Thank you for replying. Edited September 11, 2013 by jnothing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted September 11, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 It really should be impossible to paint on layer 0. Otherwise it's like a trap for the unwary and who needs booby traps? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Vipera Posted June 27, 2014 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 I have started to paint on Layer 0 by accident. Is there a way to reset it back to the default? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 0000918: Layer0 - by default to make it locked and rename it to Mesh Layer http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=918 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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