Contributor LJB Posted July 16, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Thank you! As to continuing him I think i will take him further yes and render him properly but i will retop him properly first so i get correct edgeflow for detailing to work right. I might even take a previous version and rtop him for rigging, I suppose it depends on how much time i can put down this weekend. Wife and son are away so I could pull a long session of free time work as a workflow practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member spacepainter Posted July 16, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 All that you're talking about here is terra incognita for me, hopefully you'll share more of your knowledge about all these subjects; painting, retopo, using photos for texturing, different pipelines to different programs... Excellent character, deserves some great flaming scene in the background ala Jeroen Bosch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 16, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 Excellent character, deserves some great flaming scene in the background ala Jeroen Bosch. SpacePainter - Thankyou, I was thinking maybe some black feathered wings like this awesome piece by Patrick Woodroffe (one of my main insperations, along with Kirby and Bonner), that should really push the voxel boundries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tinker Posted July 17, 2009 Contributor Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Wow great Devil character, very living and impressive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member spacepainter Posted July 17, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Think Woodroffe was inspired by William Blake... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 17, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Tinker - Thank you, I hope to capture more dynamics with the wings. Space Painter - Yes Willim Blake is also a great inspiration to me and i can see the simalrity to "The great red Dragon and the woman clolthed in the sun" infact all of his Red Dragon and beast works. Here is the basis of my idea for the wings, well the left wing at least. The right wing will Spill back and upward to continue the motion I have in the body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Giuseppe Posted July 17, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 really nice!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Tinker - Thank you, I hope to capture more dynamics with the wings.Space Painter - Yes Willim Blake is also a great inspiration to me and i can see the simalrity to "The great red Dragon and the woman clolthed in the sun" infact all of his Red Dragon and beast works. Here is the basis of my idea for the wings, well the left wing at least. The right wing will Spill back and upward to continue the motion I have in the body. If I were you, I would skulpt one basic feather and duplicate it as often as you need it, every feather on a seperate voxel layer. Then I would try to pose them to the right position. After this process, you could merge them all together, if you need it. I think, this way should gives you the most flexibility in 3DC. Don't you think so? Here in your example we can see, at the latest, that a "multi-vox-layer deformation" function is very important and would simplify our work essentially, sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 17, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 If I were you, I would skulpt one basic feather and duplicate it as often as you need it, every feather on a seperate voxel layer. Then I would try to pose them to the right position. After this process, you could merge them all together, if you need it. I think, this way should gives you the most flexibility in 3DC. Don't you think so?Here in your example we can see, at the latest, that a "multi-vox-layer deformation" function is very important and would simplify our work essentially, sometimes. Taros - Yes my friend i completely agree and I have already done so. My only annoyance is transfor tool is a pain cos you cannot (Unless im missing something) reposition the transform axis, Which makes rotation tricky, My first thought was to use seperate layers but due to this manipulation issue i maye just make a mock up of the wing in Silo and rig it out for posing. then when i bring in I can make a quick feather detial brush in psd and detail each feather using the Stamp stroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 17, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Actually I would not do every feather on a vox layer I would import a prefab feather to a new layer and use place it the manipulate and place manipulate and place, all on that layer, my reason for doing it that way is Vox Large vox tree hirachial merging is not currently possible so I would hate to have to merge each feather, and i would also have the extra work of creating each layer then switching to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted July 17, 2009 Report Share Posted July 17, 2009 Actually I would not do every feather on a vox layer I would import a prefab feather to a new layer and use place it the manipulate and place manipulate and place, all on that layer, my reason for doing it that way is Vox Large vox tree hirachial merging is not currently possible so I would hate to have to merge each feather, and i would also have the extra work of creating each layer then switching to it. I get your point. Tricky. Maybe currently it is better to build a basic object, like the feather, in a tool like softimage and pose it there. This is definetly much faster... then export it as a obj-file to 3DC. Tricky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinnamon Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 The skull looks good. The problem is renders like Mental Ray have problem with displacement rendering, which is why I'm unconcerned with digital sculpting in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 18, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 The skull looks good. The problem is renders like Mental Ray have problem with displacement rendering, which is why I'm unconcerned with digital sculpting in general. Cinnamon - Firstly Thank you for your Skull comment, always appreciated. Secondly I understand it is your opinion which is always valid, however I think your following statement is a little defeatist? Painting on a flat UV in PS will never be as intuitive as painting directly on organic model. It has its uses, but detailling organics (which is industry standard practice in nearly every next gen workflow) requires these steps, I wonder your ambition for use of any softwares with that attitude? There are challenges it is true, but that is 90% of the industry. So if you dont need the Richer by the minute functionality that this product has to offer then maybe look elsewhere? I believe that PS now lets you piant on 3D surfaces out of the box nowadays. If you intention is hard surface or structural work then PS for texturing should suit you just fine. However if you think you can detail normal maps in PS for organics that actually produce a realistic correct effect you may be in for a suprise, and be prepeared to put down many more hours than working with a sculpting ap' such as this would require. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 The skull looks good. The problem is renders like Mental Ray have problem with displacement rendering, which is why I'm unconcerned with digital sculpting in general. I don't think this is a flatly problem of tools like mental ray. My opinion is, it is more dependent on the animation software you are using. Some have a good displacement management pipeline to the render part and some not. You can compare it with the problem, that not every software is capable to manage millions of polygons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cinnamon Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 Secondly I understand it is your opinion which is always valid, however I think your following statement is a little defeatist? Painting on a flat UV in PS will never be as intuitive as painting directly on organic model. It has its uses, but detailling organics (which is industry standard practice in nearly every next gen workflow) requires these steps, I wonder your ambition for use of any softwares with that attitude? There are challenges it is true, but that is 90% of the industry. So if you dont need the Richer by the minute functionality that this product has to offer then maybe look elsewhere? I believe that PS now lets you piant on 3D surfaces out of the box nowadays. Painting directly on a 3D model is much easier and intuitive, I agree even if your knowledge of PS is near if not at an advanced level adding a 3D painting program like 3D Coat will just make your work flow faster and produce better work. I don't think this is a flatly problem of tools like mental ray. My opinion is, it is more dependent on the animation software you are using. Some have a good displacement management pipeline to the render part and some not. You can compare it with the problem, that not every software is capable to manage millions of polygons. It is a problem with Mental Ray, I've done a lot of reading on Mental Ray over a short while to conclude this statement. Mental Ray has matured as in it can handle millions of polygons but even then you run into risks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 19, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Painting directly on a 3D model is much easier and intuitive, I agree even if your knowledge of PS is near if not at an advanced level adding a 3D painting program like 3D Coat will just make your work flow faster and produce better work.It is a problem with Mental Ray, I've done a lot of reading on Mental Ray over a short while to conclude this statement. Mental Ray has matured as in it can handle millions of polygons but even then you run into risks. OK. Here's an update to Devil. Roughing in shape of the wings. I think for the look I want i will render out Feathers using Syflex Hair, rather than try and detail them here in 3D Coat. so think of them as a rough guide for position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tinker Posted July 19, 2009 Contributor Report Share Posted July 19, 2009 Wow! Fantastic! You could make 2-3 high detailed feathers of diferent types, than merge them on the wings, bending with pose tool. As for feathers, you can assemble them from thin planes, it will be like hairs groups. Damn, he is going to become just great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 21, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Wow! Fantastic!You could make 2-3 high detailed feathers of diferent types, than merge them on the wings, bending with pose tool. As for feathers, you can assemble them from thin planes, it will be like hairs groups. Damn, he is going to become just great! Yes Tinker that was the plan initially but it was a little time consuming workflow wise, here is what i have found- If i merge with 3b file i cannot keep the transform gizmo active and it merges to a fresh layer, which is a pain as I dont wont to have the extra step of having to merge each of these layers into one wing layer, My second approach which is better is to convert the feather into an OBJ and remerge it to a current layer that way transform remains active and i can continue to manipulate gizo amd mere multiple times to the same layer wit hthe simple press of the enter key. which is much more managable. So Suggested improvement from this observation would be to somehow allow merging of 3b file to current layer with transform gizmo remaining active. I have rebuilt the right wing in this way but im currently at office and files are on home system, I will update later tonight with new image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 21, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Update - Had to rebuild the wing i had built due to crash so here is where i got to tonight. Slow work, once done i will break the uniformity with the move tool. Hope you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tinker Posted July 22, 2009 Contributor Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 My second approach which is better is to convert the feather into an OBJ and remerge it to a current layer that way transform remains active and i can continue to manipulate gizo amd mere multiple times to the same layer wit hthe simple press of the enter key. which is much more managable. So Suggested improvement from this observation would be to somehow allow merging of 3b file to current layer with transform gizmo remaining active. Yes this is the only workaround for a while. Looks like lot of hard and careful work. Great, LJB! Very nice wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Update -Had to rebuild the wing i had built due to crash so here is where i got to tonight. Slow work, once done i will break the uniformity with the move tool. Hope you like. Nice. Have you tried to use the "process"-tab in the windows task manager and add all cores to 3DCoat? This makes 3DC really fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 22, 2009 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 If we could get this working with Haptics you could true sculpt Muscles in one motion that would be so cool. Exciting possibillity there no?Yeah...the Novint Falcon is pretty affordable, so folks could get one with 3DC, a used 3DConnexion SpacePilot (just bought one a while back and I love it) and it would still be cheaper than ZBrush or Mudbox.Imagine seeing that at Siggraph or GDC (they have one for Europe also, no?) next year. With a Novint Falcon in your drawing hand, and the SpacePilot in the other (to rotate/navigate....with a host of programable buttons on the pad). Would that not be geeked out or what? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=n...um=6#ps-sellers http://home.novint.com/ Got one of these on EBay for about $125 USD (extended warranty available for about $15): http://3dconnexion.com/video/video.php?vid...lot〈=en http://3dconnexion.com/video/video.php?vid...max〈=en Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 22, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Yeah...the Novint Falcon is pretty affordable, so folks could get one with 3DC, a used 3DConnexion SpacePilot (just bought one a while back and I love it) and it would still be cheaper than ZBrush or Mudbox.Imagine seeing that at Siggraph or GDC (they have one for Europe also, no?) next year. With a Novint Falcon in your drawing hand, and the SpacePilot in the other (to rotate/navigate....with a host of programable buttons on the pad). Would that not be geeked out or what? http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=n...um=6#ps-sellers http://home.novint.com/ Got one of these on EBay for about $125 USD (extended warranty available for about $15): http://3dconnexion.com/video/video.php?vid...lot〈=en http://3dconnexion.com/video/video.php?vid...max〈=en Yes I have a SpacePilot also, but do you not find the axis of rotation a problem here in 3d coat? I have posted my findings with a small video somewhere here on the forum requesting that rotation be locked to the Y axis of world space, Unfortunately I like most users of the Connexion device find it more intuitive if the controller rotates the world space around Y, currently it rotattes the viewport Y meaning any time saving that the 3d connexion device offers is outweighed by the fact that I have to spend most of my time re-centering the piece I'm working on. Not the way it should be implimented!!! Simply locking rotation the same as normal navigation in 3D Coat would correct this and make the implementation usable. I was tempted by the Novint but I am also looking at a Phantom Omni from Sansable. As the open haptics sdk is included. but i also really like the clay tools package. Now my funds are a bit happier (Clients finally paid up in full) I can consider my options. The price is a little too steep currently i may see what I can wangle, do some dealing. I just love the idea of using the haptics device to draw out voxels I think it would just be so fast and controllable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 22, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Taros - I have a little application called Process Lasso with that i can control not only the affinity of all 8 logical core on the i7 but also dynamically control priorities of 3d Coat and other applications. nice tool and there is a free demo HERE!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Taros - I have a little application called Process Lasso with that i can control not only the affinity of all 8 logical core on the i7 but also dynamically control priorities of 3d Coat and other applications. nice tool and there is a free demo HERE!! I see, the tool looks good. So you already profit by your multicores? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 22, 2009 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Yes I have a SpacePilot also, but do you not find the axis of rotation a problem here in 3d coat? I have posted my findings with a small video somewhere here on the forum requesting that rotation be locked to the Y axis of world space, Unfortunately I like most users of the Connexion device find it more intuitive if the controller rotates the world space around Y, currently it rotattes the viewport Y meaning any time saving that the 3d connexion device offers is outweighed by the fact that I have to spend most of my time re-centering the piece I'm working on. Not the way it should be implimented!!! Simply locking rotation the same as normal navigation in 3D Coat would correct this and make the implementation usable. I was tempted by the Novint but I am also looking at a Phantom Omni from Sansable. As the open haptics sdk is included. but i also really like the clay tools package. Now my funds are a bit happier (Clients finally paid up in full) I can consider my options. The price is a little too steep currently i may see what I can wangle, do some dealing. I just love the idea of using the haptics device to draw out voxels I think it would just be so fast and controllable. Yeah...it's a bit awkward, but I've just been keeping my cursor as the axis (Andrew brought this up, so I've stuck with it). It takes some getting used to, but I get to where I don't even have to think about it after a while. I do wish Andrew would take your advice on this, though. I'm really intrigued by the prospect of rotating the object with one hand (Space Pilot) and sculpting with force feedback in the other. If Andrew can coordinate with the folks at Novint to where they could mount a Wacom stylus to it, and he can include support for it in the near future...I could see him getting some free air time on G4. It doesn't get more geeky than that Think of how threatened the folks at Clay Tools would be with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted July 22, 2009 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Yeah...it's a bit awkward, but I've just been keeping my cursor as the axis (Andrew brought this up, so I've stuck with it). It takes some getting used to, but I get to where I don't even have to think about it after a while. I do wish Andrew would take your advice on this, though. I'm really intrigued by the prospect of rotating the object with one hand (Space Pilot) and sculpting with force feedback in the other. If Andrew can coordinate with the folks at Novint to where they could mount a Wacom stylus to it, and he can include support for it in the near future...I could see him getting some free air time on G4. It doesn't get more geeky than that Think of how threatened the folks at Clay Tools would be with that. Thanks for all of the tutorials BTW...I'm new to sculpting and that's a really informative facial muscle anatomy lesson...as well as technique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 22, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Yeah...it's a bit awkward, but I've just been keeping my cursor as the axis (Andrew brought this up, so I've stuck with it). It takes some getting used to, but I get to where I don't even have to think about it after a while. I do wish Andrew would take your advice on this, though. I'm really intrigued by the prospect of rotating the object with one hand (Space Pilot) and sculpting with force feedback in the other. If Andrew can coordinate with the folks at Novint to where they could mount a Wacom stylus to it, and he can include support for it in the near future...I could see him getting some free air time on G4. It doesn't get more geeky than that smile.gifThink of how threatened the folks at Clay Tools would be with that. Thanks for all of the tutorials BTW...I'm new to sculpting and that's a really informative facial muscle anatomy lesson...as well as technique. I wish he would think about the axis thing also. If i did not already use the 3D Connexion device in 3 other application in that way i would persevere with what we have now but as i use it in Maya, Max and XSI I fail to see the logic in training myself in a technique that goes quite heavily against the grain of other applications. I just feel it undoes any benifit that the 3D Connexion controller offers, feels unantural. As to the novint if andrew would look into it id be glad to help in anyway. Mock up a stylus and give advice? And as to the tuts, your welcome I never intended them to be so in depth but as i worked i really enjoyed them so I will continue in free time to produce more. Thank you. There are many more muscles that structure the face underlying those shown but they really donot effect the form of the face so I did not include, opting only for the main groups which affect the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor LJB Posted July 22, 2009 Author Contributor Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Lunchtime doodles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted July 22, 2009 Contributor Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Lunchtime doodles Looks like The Taxman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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