Contributor BeatKitano Posted June 21, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 And it certainly wasn't worth the wait (for pc version at least, mac user will ofc enjoy using it in native mode). It's the same as before only with goz and awful zbrush control. I was expecting a bit of topology support for goz, no it's still a tesselated mesh. Nice to make a quick and dirty base mesh but that's all. They didn't even improved the engine to go beyond 1M polys... I'm now waiting for liveclay cause that's the only promising road right now (meshmixer is nice but not really sculpt oriented)... I kinda wishes pixologic didn't hire DrPetter, things would certainly have moved quicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member JimB Posted June 21, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 And it certainly wasn't worth the wait (for pc version at least, mac user will ofc enjoy using it in native mode). It's the same as before only with goz and awful zbrush control. I was expecting a bit of topology support for goz, no it's still a tesselated mesh. Nice to make a quick and dirty base mesh but that's all. They didn't even improved the engine to go beyond 1M polys... I'm now waiting for liveclay cause that's the only promising road right now (meshmixer is nice but not really sculpt oriented)... I kinda wishes pixologic didn't hire DrPetter, things would certainly have moved quicker. Yes I agree but then again pc users could pretty much use Sculptris as it was and now Mac users can as well. It was a bit of a maintenance release and mark stamping exercise imo,but I am sure there will be more to come however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Grandmaster B Posted June 21, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 The author did not seem to know what he got there, Pixologic did - and shut it down. They even managed to look nice on the way. But I knew Sculptris was dead the day Pixologic aquired it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 21, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 More than 1M with dynamic tessellation? Think about it. Here I have to mention (being a beta tester) that 1M isn't precise as it works having symmetry on. Symmetry off and better stay under 500K And another: most of the members of the beta testing team bought 3dcoat LOL you can imagine why. Another one: Being a mac user, I really enjoyed this release, it became my basic sculpting tool. Because of the great sculpting tools sc has. Andrew better try to copy this behavior. I already created some similar tools in zb. Another LOL The GoZ works beautifully so you can go up to millions of faces. Unfortunately this won't work perfectly as a tri mesh subdivided in quads produces ugly 'star like' artifacts when smoothing.!!! So I developed a quasi rapid retopo trick for this only. Using the decimation master at extreme settings (~3-6 k target) exporting and re importing (importing settings/tri2quads full !!! Now subdivide and reproject. This is fast and effective but we have 3dc and autopo of course BTW to capture details on a ~400k sculptris mesh you probably need a ~3M subdivided quad 3dc cage. You also capture the ugly triangulated dyn.tessellation effect, you have to smooth and resculpt a lot... So, really detailed sculpting after retopo, here once again. I'm wondering what will happen with raul's UC. Drop sc mesh to voxels (~3-6 M) and have to resculpt again, for the same reason. I'll post some of my tests here, soon I guess. No pixologic continues to develop sculptris, in a 1-2 months they'll have another update with auto retopology. But this is how I feel for pixo team LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Grandmaster B Posted June 21, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Yeah, right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Greg Posted June 21, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 The author did not seem to know what he got there, Pixologic did - and shut it down. They even managed to look nice on the way. But I knew Sculptris was dead the day Pixologic aquired it. Not sure what you mean there. Do they plan stopping development on it? Why would they release alpha 6? I think it will just keep improving. It's hard for me to see Pixologic as bad guys. I bought ZBrush 2 and haven't had to pay for an upgrade yet. I love sculptris. IMO it is the best organic modeling program at the moment. The brushes behave exactly the way they should. And with GoZ working... fantastic. Michalis, I'm curious about your workflow. I'll have to look up some of your previous posts unless you want to give a short paragraph on it here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 21, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 IMO it is the best organic modeling program at the moment. The brushes behave exactly the way they should +++ A simple sc to zb workflow involves some kind of retopo, else you end up with something like cottage cheese after subdividing tris. Here: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=143454 But we also have auto retopo (using loopguides) , always the best, less faster but better. I always repeat that a deferent retopo is needed for sculpting and another for animation. Let's not forget the vertex painting problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Greg Posted June 21, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 +++ A simple sc to zb workflow involves some kind of retopo, else you end up with something like cottage cheese after subdividing tris. Here: http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=143454 Thanks. Going to try that workflow out. P.S. Folks, please don't misunderstand. I love 3D Coat and like starting a sculpt in it (really like the fantastic curves tool) and also retopology tools can't be beat. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 21, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Lot of my tests in beta sculptris started as 3dc curves and some vox booleans, exported directly as tri meshes via decimation. Just saying. Re imported for retopo and reprojected in zb. Resculpted then, unfortunately, the triangulated artifact is visible. Having the 64 bit mac 3dc build, I also dropped them to hi density voxels (6-15 M) It also works. Loving 3dc isn't a kind of religion, I love all these apps that have different approach on the subject, it's called freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Greg Posted June 21, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted June 21, 2011 Loving 3dc isn't a kind of religion, I love all these apps that have different approach on the subject, it's called freedom. I agree. They all work together in a fantastic way. Things have gotten so nice over the years, and it looks like they'll just keep getting better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member The Candy-floss Kid Posted June 22, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Michalis thank you so much for posting your findings and suggestions. Lovely sculpts you created. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 22, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 OK, thanks, let's get back to 3dc. Sculptris to 3dc and back workflow seems more interesting to me. Some zb in the end as long 3dc lacks of a mirrored sculpting room. Sculptris works more as a virus inside the pixo world. Indicates the weaknesses of Zb, how aged it is, the UI issues, how less spontaneous sculpting tool is. Just a retopo tool (where is it?) and zb becomes what it really is. A great displacer and a vertex painter. With great performance but with the cost of a preview that has nothing to do with any decent render engine. Pixo is afraid to change these. Why to do so? They have their customers with all these zombies, monsters, dynos, pores pores... Just try to post simple sculpting there and be an enemy of pixo maniacs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Jake_H Posted June 22, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 So not much differences between alpha 5 and 6 then? Good to know PS Nice work Michalis !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 22, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Thanks again, now it became my personal thread or what? probably my mistake, apologies. But I was a beta tester so... alpha5 and 6 have some differences though... the mac build of course, the GoZ support (not much without a retopo tool though), and the ability to paint on quad meshes (with UVs) from external apps. Good but not so interesting for our 3dc community. I have to say again, scultris became my favorite app. It's the tools behavior. Please Andrew, Raul or any other developer. Take a closer look on this. Especially the smooth and of course the great crease tool. This last, make it broad a little and have a little smaller amount of dynamic tessellation. Now use the + - actions. Perfect tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 22, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 How can I upload a video here? Anyway, not fancy, but here I use 3dc to quickly autoretopo a sculptris mesh. The interesting part is when I'm trying to fix all the triangulated artifacts in zbrush. just download it here http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24090090/tut3DC_ZB.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted June 22, 2011 Author Contributor Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Greg Posted June 22, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted June 22, 2011 Nice & helpful. Thanks for posting it. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member The Candy-floss Kid Posted June 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Michalis to understand, 1,you are using auto retopo on an .obj from Sculptris >exporting the retopo from 3D COat > importing this into zbrush to apply a projection from the Sculptris .obj? 2, This is to minimize artifacts on reprojection and to improve on ZBrush's ReMesh All function? 3,Have you also applied decimation master on the .obj Sculptris export used to create the re-projection? Sorry for all the questions. Sadly I cannot get Sculptris to export straight to ZBrush via GoZ on my Mac - it appears not to work. I see a Mac user on the ZBrush forum is having a similar issue May I ask what version of OSX you are using and if you may have any suggestions that I may get both apps to talk via GoZ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member The Candy-floss Kid Posted June 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 I happened across a lazy solution to this noisy mesh issue in ZB - that is sometimes just lowering the Remesh All resolution as this often repositions polys to allow for smoother results dividing back up and reprojecting up through divisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 @beat quick time works better on macs. For all OSs please try VLC. Sorry for this, qtX is the only I had for capturing. I'll find a more decent app. GoZ issues? here from installation txt. I didn't check the new official installer, I manually installed mine (from beta testing, same version) http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showpost.php?p=851227&postcount=51 I'm not sure if this is a right place but here the bugs and fixes. For PC or MAC users. Find the config.txt inside sculptris folder. Mac users please avoid textedit for these, try wrangler a free app. ----- version 3 log_enabled 0 window_width 1920 window_height 1152 window_x 0 window_y 4 window_maximized 0 antialiasing_numsamples 0 enable_shaders 1 mt_maxthreads 8 mt_profiler 0 mt_varrays 0 mt_tesselate 1 mt_beautify 1 mt_draw 1 mt_culling 1 mt_normals 1 mt_edges 1 _______ Now: mt_maxthreads 8, the default is 0, meaning maximum threads. I edited as 8, the cores of the two nehalem xeon. support of hyperthr is problematic. At 0 value, it indeed takes advantage of the 16 threads but not exactly. With a value of 8 I have excellent performance at ~1.5 M or even 2M !!! Using value0, ~600 k .... ha ha Try it, a friend on a pc i7 (6cores) didn't notice any improvement. PCs with i7 (4 cores) had a great improvement though. Check it, strongly recommended. Another tip (about zbrush and the issue trying to smooth subdivided triangulated meshes: The great ZB UI lol when smoothing, shift key, start smoothing and release shift as you stroke. A powerful hidden algorithm for tri meshes - star artifacts. A very nice place to hide this Why most people dont like Zb UI? I know, most of you have spend sometime with CGames. You may win sometimes. Using hacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted June 23, 2011 Author Contributor Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 @beat quick time works better on macs. For all OSs please try VLC. Sorry for this, qtX is the only I had for capturing. I'll find a more decent app. Tnx, I can still download it and open it in qt or vlc but I was just being an ass, I hate quicktime on the web, it's so stupid you can't have fullscreen... Another tip (about zbrush and the issue trying to smooth subdivided triangulated meshes: The great ZB UI lol when smoothing, shift key, start smoothing and release shift as you stroke. A powerful hidden algorithm for tri meshes - star artifacts. A very nice place to hide this Yeah... how retarded is that, the two algorithms are linked on z intensity, that means if you want to use alternative algorithm right away you have to lose surface energy then let shift go to use curve energy preservation... And when you want strong smoothing you lose a lot of surface before switching to the proper algorithm. It was so simple to add a button to choose between the two... Pixologic fail again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 t's so stupid you can't have fullscreen... On the PC, you can have it on the mac with great quality. Why apple did this? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Digital777 Posted June 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 But I knew Sculptris was dead the day Pixologic aquired it. +1 vote, i made sure to keep a copy of the older version (before the buy out) and will probably never update it either unless they actually add something that makes it worth it. Mesh Mixer is the new Sculptris though and with blenders new sculpting, MM and 3DC i haven't used Sculptris much recently to be honest, other than Mesh Mixer's GUI it's much better already for certain tasks. I hope the author doesn't do the same thing though or instead takes the technology to another program like 3DC or blender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Digital777 Posted June 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 > in a 1-2 months they'll have another update with auto retopology. If that is true and they are following what 3DC does now to try and maintain the top spot for sculpting they probably see 3DC as big competition. Hopefully when they release that update people on 3D forums will talk about 3DC and it will just work against them and as free advertisement for 3DC instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted June 23, 2011 Author Contributor Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 > in a 1-2 months they'll have another update with auto retopology. If that is true and they are following what 3DC does now to try and maintain the top spot for sculpting they probably see 3DC as big competition. Hopefully when they release that update people on 3D forums will talk about 3DC and it will just work against them and as free advertisement for 3DC instead. Hmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Digital777 Posted June 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Ok so i figured i might as well give this program another try to test if the latest version was a lot faster, i did not like what i saw though. You would think just being hosted on the ZB forum and having ZB linking in the app etc was enough but now everywhere i looked in the description it says "Zbrush" so it seems Sculptris has basically turned into one big advertisement for ZB. When i went to download i was then taken to a page where it says "please fill in the form below" and it looks like i would then be sent ZB newsletters, so in the end i just decided not get it. It's still a great program i am sure but i don't really like the direction it has gone now. I kind of wonder what would have been added if the developer had another funding source to just continue the project and did not join the ZB team, i am guessing it would have been a lot different... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted June 23, 2011 Author Contributor Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 Ok so i figured i might as well give this program another try to test if the latest version was a lot faster. You would think just being hosted on the ZB forum and having ZB linking in the app etc was enough but now everywhere i looked in the description it says "Zbrush" so it seems Sculptris has basically turned into one big advertisement for ZB. When i went to download i was then taken to a page where it says "please fill in the form below" and it looks like i would then be sent ZB newsletters, so in the end i just decided not get it. That's the thinking, for pixologic sculptris is the fun and easy toy for starters. Then you go to buy zbrush in the end... It was a very clever move, it could have become a direct competitor on the sculpting side of the app, so they secured their market and now they use it to draw people to zbrush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member The Candy-floss Kid Posted June 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 GoZ issues? here from installation txt. I didn't check the new official installer, I manually installed mine (from beta testing, same version) http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showpost.php?p=851227&postcount=51 Many thanks Michalis for the tips. Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted June 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 23, 2011 That's the thinking, for pixologic sculptris is the fun and easy toy for starters. Then you go to buy zbrush in the end... It was a very clever move, it could have become a direct competitor on the sculpting side of the app, so they secured their market and now they use it to draw people to zbrush. Maybe so, but as I think, sculptris now works like a virus inside pixologic world. Zb starts looking old and less spontaneous. I don't think they'll do something bad though. BTW they'll ask for a new testing group in a few weeks, they said so... As for me I had enough LOL What we may have to expect some day, is the full implementation of sculptris inside zb. It seems more reasonable for pixo as they have a machine capable for real hi frequency details. And they have a superior decimation master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Richard A. Posted July 26, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 26, 2011 Hi Michalis, Are you at all in the know about this question... will there ever be a way to export an obj in quads from Sculptris rather than having to jump through the retop hoops?? I'm such a newbie when it comes to most of this stuff and while I LOVE Sculptris anything exported directly isn't very useful in most apps. I tried importing a little sculpt into Hexagon... CRASH! lol Silo 2.0 (I have 2.2 but it's really buggy) didn't know what to do with it and eventually crashed too. I barely know my way around 3DC, I can paint in the program but that's about it. ZBrush I own but I dread invoking it! lol Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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