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Poser to 3D-Coat


Space76Ghost
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Hi,

 

I'm a DAZ/Poser Artist from Long Island, NY! I am decent at both DAZ & Poser. I want to start learning how to make my own content, clothing, hair and accessories. I like the user friendly flow 3D-Coat has which is why I thought I would give it a try.

 

I know to import Poser models you export them as a Wave Object but if I were to want to add clothing to my character ( base mesh ) I'd like to know what 3D-Coat users would suggest?

 

Does anyone know how I could export my Poser model with its texture to 3D-Coat? It only imports them as one solid base mesh.

 

Thanks! I look forward to your suggestions!

 

Ghost

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 I want to start learning how to make my own content, clothing, 

 

Here the workaround if you want make cloth from scratch

Import the Daz Figure as Base in voxelmode

with vox layer tool create a new surface or voxellayer

sculpt a  cloth 

retopo the cloth 

UV mapping  the cloth mesh

paint and backing texture maps 

export the cloth mesh with textutes  as obj.

rigging the cloth in Poser or DAZ  
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Hi there,

I'm from Germany and an absolute newbie in 3d-sculpting. So far, I was only engaged with Poser, however, I am more and more impressed about what you can do with 3DC and I really want to learn it. I watched lots of tutorials but all together I guess that my workflow is somewhat wrong.

What I want to do: Create a modified obj-model for re-import into Poser, based on the famous DAZ Genesis figure.

What I already did:

1. Export Genesis Female model as an obj

2. Import the obj into the voxel room

3. Modify it by using the tools provided in the voxel room

4. Only for cross check: export obj out of the voxel room and import into Poser. Awesome result, every small detail is visible, perfect !!

 

But regarding the following steps I guess my understanding is not correct:

5a. I did not make any retopo / autopo since painting directly on voxel model was possible in the painting room. Fantastic result thanks to the photoshop like tools. I did not make the retopo because in another thread people said that the texture you paint within the painting room will be baked directly onto the mesh (which I think is existent because I am able to export the model to Poser) and you only have to do the model export. Also they said that no UV mapping is necessary.

6a. Export finished model out of Painting Room as obj and import obj into Poser: no texture visible (but still all details)

 

Alternative procedure:

5b. Merge for pixel painting, autopo was made and UV map was created automatically. Result: my originally detailed figure looked now like a teletubby.

6b. Export finished teletubby out of Paiting Room and import into Poser: Teletubby comes with the texture. Nice but not really want I intended.

 

So, where is my workflow error? Do I really need to retopo the original model, although export without texture is perfect (I hate retopo since my results are terrible and all details get lost)? Or do I have to choose another painting tool? So far I have no idea in which mode I am painting (microvertex, per pixel or ptex). I did not find any button to swith the mode.

 

Thank you very much for your help

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If you want to pose or animate your final model in Poser, then you will need to retopologize by hand (not autopo). Mesh topology which is ideal for posing or animation is difficult to create with the autopo tool alone.

Also, when you are using the autopo tool, it sounds like you are not using enough polygons to capture the details of your model. The details are being smoothed out by a low polygon count. That is probably why you are getting the Teletubby results. Also your edgeflow is probably not matching the contours of your model. You need to put the edges in the right places.

Once you have created a good quality retopo mesh by hand, then you should create good quality UVs by hand. Automatic retopology and automatic UVs help to save time in specific situations, and they are useful tools, but doing things by hand will give you the best results. Of course you need to know how to make good topology and how to make good UVs. There are lots of tutorials online to teach you how.

After you are done with retopo and UVs, then send the model to the paint room for per pixel painting. Do all of your painting. Finally export your obj and your maps. In Poser apply all your maps. I don't use Poser, but I am guessing you will also need to bind your rig again, and possibly also paint bind weights again as well.

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Create a modified obj-model for re-import into Poser, based on the famous DAZ Genesis figure.

 

 

then you will need to retopologize by hand

 

Oh no retopo is not needed ! TE will not recreated the figure. He/she want only modify the Genesis figure  geometry and paint new texture maps.    

 

Edited by vidi
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Oh no retopo is not needed ! TE will not recreated the figure. He/she want only modify the Genesis figure geometry and paint new texture maps.

If Sheppard wants to make big changes, it will modify the geometry so much that retopo of the whole figure will be needed.

If the changes are very small, then Sheppard could reuse a lot of the original geometry. The original geometry could be imported into the Retopo Room and then snapped to the modified/sculpted mesh. Then only the parts which were changed could be retopologized.

To me it sounds like the changes were pretty major if the model is resembling a Teletubby after sculpting...

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Also, I am assuming that Sheppard wants to animate the model later on in Poser.

If that is NOT the case, then he/she could just sculpt it (end up with a high poly mesh with bad topology), paint the vertices, make sure the vertex color info is exported (and can be viewed in Poser), and then it would be ready for rendering there.

But, I assume Sheppard would like to have a final model with nice topology for animation. If that is the case, then some degree of retopo would be needed (more or less depending on how big the changes were).

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If Sheppard wants to make big changes, it will modify the geometry so much that retopo of the whole figure will be needed.

 

No it is not needed ! because the goal is  modify the genesis figure and not create a new figure 
 
if you make a retopo, you create a new mesh and this will not work as a  Genesis morph in DAZ or Poser.
Edited by vidi
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No it is not needed ! because the goal is modify the genesis figure and not create a new figure

if you make a retopo, you create a new mesh and this will not work as a Genesis morph in DAZ or Poser.

Ok, I guess that if Sheppard is trying to keep the original Genesis rig working, then the only changes he/she can make to the original geometry would be to move the vertices around, but he/she shouldn't delete any vertices or add any vertices. Only very minor modifications could be made to the original geometry. Sheppard could sculpt proportional changes, like fatter legs, and add details, like new pockets on pants, but major changes, like adding a new arm, wouldn't be possible.

So, first import the original geometry into the Sculpt Room, sculpt minor modifications, then go to the Retopo Room, import the original geometry, snap it to your modified mesh, move any vertices as needed with the brush tool (don't move them too far), and finally merge it to the Paint Room for per pixel painting. If you didn't alter the UVs while you were in the Retopo Room, then you could still import the original model's diffuse map into the Paint Room and just paint on top of it with a new layer. Then you could export the OBJ and texture maps, and it should all still work with the Genesis rig in Poser, since you didn't alter the original model's vertex count.

You can probably also add new clothing items as separate geometry, and that probably won't break the Genesis rig either, but I guess those clothing items would have to be parented to the rig in Poser somehow.

Edit: You can also try using the Tweak Room to alter a model's shape without adding or removing any geometry in the process.

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Thanks a lot for all of your help.

 

I apologize having caused so much guesswork in terms of my intention, therefore here some more details:

@ modifications: only small changes of the original Genesis have been done as I intend to create something called "Ecorche" which is a figure without the outer skin and fat deposits, i.e the bare muscle/skeleton structure for use as an art reference model ( I did that by importing a modified Genesis with shorter legs etc. to be rather a real figure than a supergirl. In Voxel room I was working mainly with the muscle tool and the grow/smooth brushes and their inversions).

@ animation: at the time being no animation is planned. I guess that the muscle structure will not follow original human movements. The same is true with the muscle map of DAZ.

 

 

So, first import the original geometry into the Sculpt Room, sculpt minor modifications, then go to the Retopo Room, import the original geometry, snap it to your modified mesh, move any vertices as needed with the brush tool (don't move them too far), and finally merge it to the Paint Room for per pixel painting. If you didn't alter the UVs while you were in the Retopo Room, then you could still import the original model's diffuse map into the Paint Room and just paint on top of it with a new layer. Then you could export the OBJ and texture maps, and it should all still work with the Genesis rig in Poser, since you didn't alter the original model's vertex count.

 

Thanks for this workflow decription, I will play around a bit. But I realized that I am much more rookie than you could imagine and sometimes I do not really understand what exactly I will have to do.  So far I tried the following:

1. imported the obj of Genesis

2. scupting in Voxel Room

3. going to Retopo Room. File>Import>Import Retopo Mesh and snapped to surface. The result was much better than my teletubby although some small strange stripes appear (from the chin to the chest and from hands to the hip). I would have posted a jpg but here is no possibilty, correct?
Furthermore the complete Genesis retopo groups seem to be imported (named from abdomen to the upper jaw) and all of those show under retopo groups on the right.

4. a strange UV preview is also showing in Retopo Room, however nothing in the UV room.

5. going to Paint Room: What exactly do you mean when saying "merge it to Paint Room" and how can I choose in what mode I am working (per pixel, vertex ...)? From which room and with which tool/function do I have to do that?

 

Well, I proceed trying out everything.

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Hi Sheppard,

I will cover the whole process here:

When you import your Genesis obj, you should get an import dialog box. The dialog box is actually the Tool Options panel for the Merge Tool. In that dialog box make sure that the "Merge without voxelizing" button is NOT checked.

Also be sure to click on "Apply" when you are done with the settings!

MergeWithoutVoxelizingBox.JPG

That way the model WILL be converted to voxels. Then you can sculpt your changes into the voxel mesh with the voxel sculpting tools. You can also switch the model to Surface Mode and use the Surface Mode sculpting brushes if you want. To switch to Surface Mode, click on the "V" in the Vox Tree and it will change into an "S". Then it is in Surface Mode, and the brushes in the Tool Panel will change to Surface Mode brushes:

SwitchToSurfaceMode_01.JPG

When you are done sculpting, go to the Retopo Room, and import your original Genesis obj model. Choose "yes" to snap it to your newly sculpted mesh. If there are snapping issues, you can use the Brush Tool to slide vertices over the surface until they are in better positions. You can also "relax" the vertices with the Brush Tool, to make them be spaced better in relation to their neighbors.

Finally, you can send the mesh to the Paint Room by choosing a "merge" option from the Retopo menu. Choosing one of these options will send your new Retopo mesh to the Paint Room for painting, and it will bake a normal map and occlusion map if you so choose. The maps will be placed in your layer stack in the Paint Room:

MergeToPaintRoomOptions.jpg

By the way, as you can see in the image above, your model should look visually similar if you already have UVs set up on it. The checkerboard pattern shows possible map distortions, the patches of different colors show different UV islands, and the bright green lines show UV seams. If you don't have any of that showing up on your model, then you need to make UVs for your model. Creating automatic UVs may be good enough for your purposes, but you can also create them manually with the UV Tools. The UV Tools in the Retopo Room are "context sensitive" so they will only appear as needed as you work on your UVs. Otherwise, most of the UV Tools remain hidden from the user interface.

Your model will not show up in the UV Room if you did not import it there (for the specific purpose of working on UVs). The UV tools in the Retopo Room are nearly identical to the UV Tools in the UV Room so working on UVs while in the Retopo Room should be fine for nearly all purposes.

Also, please take note that your voxel model may actually appear in the Paint Room BEFORE you create a retopo mesh for it in the Retopo Room. This is not a bug. It works that way so as to allow the user to paint the vertices of the model if they desire (also known as "vertex painting" or "voxel painting"). You can turn off viewing voxels in the paint room by unchecking "show voxels in the paint room" in the Paint Room View menu:

ShowVoxelsInPaintRoom.jpg

Therefore, if you are merging your retopo model to the Paint Room for painting, then you should definitely turn off "Show Voxels in Paint Room".

As Vidi suggested above, you can merge your model into the Paint Room for Microvertex painting if you would like. In that mode you can paint displacement onto your model and then export that displacement as a displacement map. In Per Pixel mode, you can only paint on the normal map to add detail, and/or paint color maps. Ptex should work for you too, because 3D-Coat can create special UV maps for applications which do not support Ptex natively.

I checked online and it looks like Poser currently does not support the display of vertex color information. Therefore exporting a vertex painted mesh ("voxel painting") directly from 3D-Coat with the .ply format will not work in Poser. You will have to bake that vertex color information to UVs by merging it to the Paint Room.

When you are done with your painting you can export your painted maps and/or model by using the File menu. Then import them back into Poser to do your posing and rendering.

Hopefully in Poser your model will still work with the Genesis rig for further tweaking and posing. I assume that it will work because you did not alter the vertex count while in 3D-Coat. On the other hand, it is possible that 3D-Coat will in fact change the vertex numbers while processing your model for export. If the vertex number has been changed, then the model will not work properly anymore with the Genesis rig. The only way to know for sure is to import the new model into Poser, attach it to the Genesis rig and see if it works.

If it doesn't work, then you may only be able to use the Microvertex painting mode in 3D-Coat to paint your displacement in 3D-Coat, and/or import the model into the 3D-Coat Tweak Room, and use the limited tools there to sculpt your adjustments. Also, 3D-Coat might still alter the vertex numbers when exporting from those rooms, so that may not work either. Try it out and see. Maybe it will work with no problems.

The vertex count and vertex number are only important if you want to continue using the Genesis rig in Poser or Daz. Otherwise, you can do whatever you want in 3D-Coat and simply rig your new custom mesh with the custom rigging tools in Poser.

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Thank you so much, TimmyZDesign, for this incredible description. At least, I understand now the principles. You should write a book for all of us beginners :D

 

Regarding my problems, I guess that the Genesis figure is the reason. When imported her according to your instructions, she shows up in "thousands" of Retopo Groups. Even the jaws form one of those groups. After snapping the imported obj, multiple strange things happen. I would like to post an image but an alert pop up tells me that I am not allowed to do so. How did you include images?

 

It might be that I have to limit something within the export parameters of Poser in order to avoid that even the mesh of the teeth shows up. Thanks to your walkthrough, I managed to adjust/delete several vertices, however that would take lots of work to get a fine result and I assume that doing all manually (using Quads etc.) would lead to a better performance.

 

Again, I feel myself guilty having caused that much work for you to help me, THANKS A LOT.

 

Having said that, I will try to investigate more intensely how 3D sculpting is working. As per today, I really do not understand what happens when exporting the obj out of the voxel room. Due to the fact that it is displayed perfectly in Poser (but without any texture) there must exist a mesh. Why, if such mesh is existing, do I have to retopo the model - respectively, why am I unable to use the same mesh for creating a UV? Why do I need to do all that stuff with the result of loosing all details (which obvioulsly might be corrected if I was able to perform a correct retopo)? . :wacko: 

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As Vidi suggested above, you can merge your model into the Paint Room for Microvertex painting if you would like. In that mode you can paint displacement onto your model and then export that displacement as a displacement

 

...and you can deform your mesh without change the vertexorder in this mode

 

Javis show it here

NOTE: To use this technique you MUST be using Microvertex mode, not Per Pixel or PTEX.

 

 

The Goal >   No Retopo, no lost UV and keep bones, wheights  and so on .

That is an usual way to create new shapes  from Genesis Basis.

Edited by vidi
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Sorry Vidi, when you posted your suggestions I did not yet understand how to work within this Microvertex mode. Now ... I do ! Thanks a lot.

Currently I am still about to learn more how retopo is working. The results are improving :D . The next to check out will be Microvertex, for sure, and I will keep you posted.  

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Open the figure in Paintroom with micro vertex mode . paint textur and structure maps and use the  layer function for create morphsmaps  with the tweak room.

 

That's really a fantastic option. I tried out the morphmaps with a simple figure, and I liked it very much. Thanks, Vidi, for the hint. For my project (currently I do not need any animation) it will not help for now but I will rember this feature for further projects, in case there will be some.

 

During the last days/nights I spent a lot of work for optimizing retopo and I managed get much a better result for normal maps, let's say much better than a Teletubby. But I am wondering now whether that the work has been spent invain since the results in Poser are still washy (not within 3DC!) and I assume that this is caused by my 3DC version. I bought it at Steam as a consumer, wheareas I was not aware that it is impossible in this version to export high-res objects (sorry, I did not realize that before). Even the layers in the paint room are limited to 7. If that is true there will be no more need to use 3DC for the purpose of my project. Fortunately, the export of a high-poly worked by direct export out of the Voxel Room without textures, so I will do my paintwork with Photoshop (not a very clever solution, indeed).

 

My last trial will follow Vidi's suggestion: Microvertex. What do you think, does the extra work on retopo (which I still have to do) make reasonable sense for my purposes, or do I have to update to the more expensive version (if possible via Steam), in order to be able to export a detailed model (like the original Genesis resolution in Poser) ?

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3D-Coat

  • Keine kommerzielle Verwendung erlaubt, aber Sie dürfen Geld durch den Verkauf von TF2-Gegenständen verdienen.
  • Die maximale zu exportierende Texturengröße beträgt 2048x2048
  • Limitiert auf 7 Ebenen

was not aware that it is impossible in this version to export high-res objects (sorry, I did not realize that before).

 

Really ? I can not read this restriction

Maybe  you misinterpreted the terms  ?

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Maybe  you misinterpreted the terms  ?

 

That might well be. I try to export out of the Paint Room: File -> Export Model -> choose name of .obj -> first drop down of the pop-up window shows 2 different types of "export resolution" (low-poly mesh; mid-poly mesh) ... no more options.

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Sorry Vidi, I do not understand what you mean and did that tool tip check before: when I was hovering over "export resolution" or the drop down itself, it dispays "please select the resolution of the mesh". When, after opening the drop down which is only providing for said 2 options, I am hovering over mid-poly, it displays that a mid-poly mesh is the preferred option and after export it will look the same as within 3DC. But it does not. And High-poly is not an option to choose.

What am I doing wrong ?

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