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Normalization of US/Cuba Relations


Tony Nemo
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An anticipated result for Cuba is better internet access which looks good for Raul and3D-Coat.

I don't think there is going to be a normalization, despite what you hear. I think it's more of a carrot to try and encourage the Cuban government to open up a little bit and allow free elections. Apart from them doing so, there won't be anything happening on the US end.

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Only if those clowns opposing it keep the status quo.

I'm glad to hear there has been some movement, even if it's very little.

Obama is the only clown in town...well, not true. There is this one guy, Harry Reid that's pretty comical, and then there is his colleague in corruption, the Wicked Witch of the West (aka. Nancy Pelosi), but lets not get political, here. :D

 

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can we designate this thread as political?

 

And then can someone explain to me whats the deal with this Cuban embargo.

 

And then why people are calling Obama a clown? from the outside he seems like the most reasonable/well spoken president you've had in a while. He's like the most "normal" person. he's with the bushes and clintons and reagans, he's the only one that doesn't seem like a cartoon character to me. He can talk in interviews and answer questions normally, admitting his failures, and generally he is the only one that seems like he's speaking for himself, and not a pre-written script handed to him.

 

I mean what policies is he introducing that are so bad?

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can we designate this thread as political?

 

And then can someone explain to me whats the deal with this Cuban embargo.

 

And then why people are calling Obama a clown? from the outside he seems like the most reasonable/well spoken president you've had in a while. He's like the most "normal" person. he's with the bushes and clintons and reagans, he's the only one that doesn't seem like a cartoon character to me. He can talk in interviews and answer questions normally, admitting his failures, and generally he is the only one that seems like he's speaking for himself, and not a pre-written script handed to him.

 

I mean what policies is he introducing that are so bad?

There was some sort of prisoner swap and part of the deal was Obama pledging this dubious "normalization" which he never even bother to consult with congress over. Only they can lift the embargo. Obama only has 2 yrs left on his term and his political party just had their hats handed to them in the recent congressional elections, so, he's trying to do everything he can to implement laws when that is NOT his job. His job is to ENFORCE laws Congress makes.

 

So, it's another end run around Congress before Conservatives completely take control of it, in January. That's why I say this normalization is nothing but a ruse. He doesn't have the power to lift the embargo. It's sort of like a sneaky kid being told "NO!" by one parent and going to the other and try to get permission from them. 

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but i mean the embargo, why is it still in effect? Like i remember when i was going to the US i was reading visa requirements, and as an Australian citizen, you dont need a visa, you just use the visa waiver program. UNLESS you have been to cuba or voluntarily been a member of a communist party.

 

This embargo seems like something left over from the cold war, and its just seems to be hurting the people who live there. I have a couple of friends who went there to work as doctors and nurses, and they all say the people there are amazingly nice, just stuck, because no one is allowed to do business with them.

 

And i don't really get this child analogy, seems like a genuine attempt to improve a situation, the island is right next to america, and has terrible living conditions.. What are the arguments against this?

 

It the only argument is that cuba is being anti-democratic, but so are tonnes of other countries, none of them appear on the visa waiver exclusion list.. I would love to go to Cuba as soon as they ease up on these restrictions.

 

And i think the sanctions are just plain evil towards the people, they already have a shitty dictator to deal with... maybe with more technology and communication the people would naturally sway the country to a democracy?

 

Also the whole guantanomo bay prison in a country with an ebrago makes very little sense to me. all feels like someone has a personal vendetta against cuba..

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but i mean the embargo, why is it still in effect? Like i remember when i was going to the US i was reading visa requirements, and as an Australian citizen, you dont need a visa, you just use the visa waiver program. UNLESS you have been to cuba or voluntarily been a member of a communist party.

 

This embargo seems like something left over from the cold war, and its just seems to be hurting the people who live there. I have a couple of friends who went there to work as doctors and nurses, and they all say the people there are amazingly nice, just stuck, because no one is allowed to do business with them.

 

And i don't really get this child analogy, seems like a genuine attempt to improve a situation, the island is right next to america, and has terrible living conditions.. What are the arguments against this?

 

It the only argument is that cuba is being anti-democratic, but so are tonnes of other countries, none of them appear on the visa waiver exclusion list.. I would love to go to Cuba as soon as they ease up on these restrictions.

 

And i think the sanctions are just plain evil towards the people, they already have a shitty dictator to deal with... maybe with more technology and communication the people would naturally sway the country to a democracy?

 

Also the whole guantanomo bay prison in a country with an ebrago makes very little sense to me. all feels like someone has a personal vendetta against cuba..

You are correct. It is a cold war holdover but so are the attitudes of many older, white Americans who get out and vote in non-presidential elections. My aunt, who died a few years ago at 95 could not understand why we gave 'our' canal to Panama. As older, atavistic beliefs die, they may be replaced with more liberal ones. Unfortunately, in our last election, younger more liberal voters typically neglected to vote but will return to the poles in 2016.

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My clown comment is for politicians in general. I don't really like politicking or politics. Generally I refer to clowns as people who have an agenda that isn't really their own, and are swayed by lobbyists. The whole system here is messed up and needs completely flushed IMHO, when these old white fat-cats make money by voting one way or another, something is wrong.

 

But anyway, about Cuba, I don't see any reason to not lift the embargo, and have thought this way for a long time. We're all humans on this planet, damn all political agendas, we need to help one another and lift each other up. Anyone that sticks a political agenda above that can go to hell. I'd love to hear an actual reason why people are against lifting the embargo, too. Because so far it's be pure rhetoric, bullet points or sound bites, no tangible or reasonable argument against doing so.

 

I find it funny that the extremists against it, and I'm referring mostly to neo-cons, the ones that supported torture and propagated the idea that torture is OK under certain circumstances have this double standard. The US has a similar human rights record as Cuba, but less than China, and yet we deal with China and not Cuba. The double standards the US has is bizarre, to say the least. But hey, when money is involved, anything is possible. Even such double standards.

 

Of course there are some older Cuban Americans that are too, and rightly so, they endured hardships, but it's important to remember that times have changed and these old cold war throwbacks only cause problems.

 

 

Remember the past. Don't repeat it.

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The embargo will definitely be lifted when the Dems take control in 2016. Look at the numbers: the only Cuban American group opposed are the over 65s.

 

I agree with you. The population that would be genuinely fact-based resistance to it, are mostly older Cuban Americans. But don't forget the extremists, they have a lot of money and power. Disinformation is easily spread.

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Goebbels was a pioneer at this.

 

Indeed he was. He was inspired by the Americans, too. Edward Bernays, to be precise. Nephew to Sigmund Freud. He designed modern "consumer" culture as we know it. If you're interested, the BBC did a pretty interesting documentary about this topic called 'The Century of the Self'.

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The embargo will definitely be lifted when the Dems take control in 2016. Look at the numbers: the only Cuban American group opposed are the over 65s.

Don't get me wrong. I'd like to see it lifted, but Raul would be be first to tell you, the government there in Cuba is incredibly oppressive, and the entire purpose of the embargo was to compel them to open up and allow free elections. free press and now unfettered internet access. I hope it sparks some change on the Cuban side as well. Things could change for the better very quickly, if they do.

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soon self driving, self recharging google car go mainstream, gas prices plumet, all wars finish, because no one will have the funds to fight...

 

 

haha no no no! The people running the show have no intention of letting us do any such thing!

 

 

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Aleksey, if you are Australian you can go visit Cuba anytime. . We Canadians go there all the time and make up the main tourist market there.  They won't stamp you passport with a Cuban stamp.   They understand that big bad USA will make problems for you if they see a Cuban stamp in your passport.   With ISIS and Taliban and Boko Haram and Russia and Iran, you'd think USA have bigger things to worry about than Cuba. 

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If USA want to put trade embargo's on "communist type governments" why don't they do that with China?   I guess too much money is to be made and China funds US lifestyle through purchasing their debt bonds.

As a 'political' policy, the embargo does not meet rational criteria and it is pointless to look for a sensible explanation. As old people die and young people take their place, old policies wither away.

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If USA want to put trade embargo's on "communist type governments" why don't they do that with China?   I guess too much money is to be made and China funds US lifestyle through purchasing their debt bonds.

They did for a long time, and don't forget...the US and China were on the same side in WWII, so there was some history of cooperation between the nations before. I'm not sure what the rationale was for them lifting the embargo decades ago. Every country is a bit different.

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