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Blending between layers in the voxel tree


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Is it possible to blend between layers in the voxel tree? By blending I mean that the sculpting tool would treat the separate layers as if they were the same layer and affect both. For instance if for some reason I wanted to put ears and head on separate layers then if I could turn on blending between voxel tree layers it'd allow me to attach the ear to the head seamlessly. I hope that makes sense.

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Yeah, I don't think it's a necessary feature, but I thought it'd be cool and useful and I thought I'd ask. I think I saw something similar in a ZBrush tutorial. Some one placed a horn on a head and even though they were separate objects the program smoothed between them as if they weren't.

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  • 3 weeks later...

There are a lot of things I'm really hoping to see with voxels. This is one of them. :)

Once Andrew returns from vacation, I have a list (huge list!) of feature requests that I'll start submitting. Hopefully we'll see voxels become the premiere sculpting solution, in 3D-Coat.

On a sidenote, I truly feel like voxel sculpting is going to cause a paradigm shift with 3D sculpting programs in general... It's like real clay, and is much easier to sculpt and use.

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On a sidenote, I truly feel like voxel sculpting is going to cause a paradigm shift with 3D sculpting programs in general... It's like real clay, and is much easier to sculpt and use.

I suspect you're absolutely right about that, geothefaust. All the more reason for 3D-Coat to nail its voxel implementation perfectly, because the imitators will start blindly aping the concept in droves soon.

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:)

Awesome guys. I'm glad I'm not alone in that thought. I'm certain Andrew will appreciate as many feature requests as we can submit to him, as humanly possible! The more - The better 3DC will be for it.

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I hope you guys are right.

Currently its a bit like this:

Technology potential: 10

Implementation: 6-

Its regretfully exactly like i was afraid it would go. Andrew had to meet a base standard to at least be interesting to mb/zb sculptors and with this version he didnt. So they play, say it aint good enough and leave it. V3's toolset also doesnt emphasize the voxel sculpting possibilities enough (why have merge and subtract hidden in a clumsy 40 item right click menu ffs). As far as features go i think very little has to be added. But -everything- needs to be improved. More features do not make a program better. I just hope Andrew has the vision and foresight to see whats important so we dont get to see him waste his time on something like a fluid sim inside 3dcoat.

@Stanley

Others wont jump on this because they allready are too heavily invested in mesh based sculpting. Imagine what an investment pixologic would have to make to switch their base technology. All the tools they have created up till now are mesh based. So just to get to where they are now in mesh based sculpting they would have to rebuild everything! Thats not even including the tools they could make that are voxel specific. Its a step i dont think they are going to make any time soon (if ever).

As for Mudbox its under autodesk's wing. It wont innovate at all. What did MB2009 add? Brush performance that should have been like that from the start. EXTREME hardware dependency which lead to viewport shaders and effects. And painting tools that are so basic that everyone buys 3dcoat for that part of their work. ;)

Dont misunderstand. I'd love someone else to pick up the voxel sculpting aspect. One of the reasons im creating voxel sculpting vids and works in 3dcoat is to promote the technology. By promoting the technology more people ask for it and the demand grows. Where there is a demand there is a posibility to make money. Where there is to be made money there are investors. When there are investors things become possible that werent possible before. I dont expect anything from mb or zb regarding voxels. But a small company may pick up on it. Like what happened with the mesh modellers; there was a niche to fill with a very specialized (and therefore good) tool. Silo was born. If voxel sculpting will come from another corner i expect it to come from there; a small company of enthusiasts. I look forward to that day where we can choose what voxel modeller to use.

GrtZ 3dioot

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I just thought I'd chime in here and say that I too hope to see 3D-Coat's focus shift to voxel sculpting. That's why I bought the program... well, that and I heard bad things about the Mac version of ZBrush.

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I dont mean 3dcoat's focus should shift entirely. As you can see by both zbrush (sculpt + paint + retopo) and mbox (sculpt + paint) the current feature set is really strong. At the moment however 3dcoat's voxel sculpting only lives by the grace of the core feature set of v2 and the added pixel painting. If the voxel sculpting part would have been released as a seperate program the way it is now it would have been dead in the water allready. At the moment voxel sculpting gets a big boost from the integration with the retopo and painting tools. I hope it to become so good that it will be great on its own.

I think thats the point the others have been making also. And with what has been shown up till now, there are no reasons not to go all the way. It will require very focussed development and a fair bit of insight. I dont believe Andrew can fix it on user's suggestions alone. User feedback only goes so far. Thats why i hope he WILL take a good look at zb and mb and take their performance, their brush feeling as his own personal goal. If he does that it will give far better results then any user feedback could ever achieve. Im not saying user feedback is not important. It most definately is. However it cant be all there is.

3dioot

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For me before focusing on brush engine feeling(which is needed) the first thing to do is fixing(or finding some workaround) for the little problem that volumetric sculpt gives.

2 things I hope can be improved.

1)handling thin surface better

2)Smoothing(related to the first one)

As volumetric sculpting give freedom in topology,it should handle better thin surfaces(for example wings),I can understand that you can't have too much thin surface with small volumes,but I don't like the fact that it's really easier making holes.

Edit:

I forgot the pose tool.

It's really problematic working with it now,pen selection doesn't work well(it's really slow),applying the trasformation destroy the sculpt and it doesn't work with hiding

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There are a lot of things I'm really hoping to see with voxels. This is one of them. :)

Once Andrew returns from vacation, I have a list (huge list!) of feature requests that I'll start submitting. Hopefully we'll see voxels become the premiere sculpting solution, in 3D-Coat.

On a sidenote, I truly feel like voxel sculpting is going to cause a paradigm shift with 3D sculpting programs in general... It's like real clay, and is much easier to sculpt and use.

Two things....This is an "Industry First"...and as such, I think andrew really needs to start using this terminology in all of his marketing material, including the website. People like to crowd around when they hear of something NEW and cutting-edge...which voxels are, as well as CUDA support. Otherwise, many potential customers will dismiss it as just a ZBrush or Mudbox knockoff (which they may already have).

What he really needs to do is to sell WHAT'S DIFFERENT. So, first thing a visitor to the 3DC mainpage should see is "INDUSTRY FIRST"...early and often...in big, bold text.

INDUSTRY FIRST- Voxel Sculpting (subtitle "literal CG Clay, not polygonal mesh)

INDUSTRY FIRST- NVidia CUDA support

INDUSTRY FIRST- 3DConnexion device support

INDUSTRY BEST- Retopology, Paint and UV tools...and perhaps more importantly, most affordable.

This makes is clear from the beginning "Why" a prospective customer should take a closer look at 3DC.

Secondly, I wonder if Andrew has applied for patents regarding Voxel sculpting technology.

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At the moment however 3dcoat's voxel sculpting only lives by the grace of the core feature set of v2 and the added pixel painting. If the voxel sculpting part would have been released as a seperate program the way it is now it would have been dead in the water allready. At the moment voxel sculpting gets a big boost from the integration with the retopo and painting tools. I hope it to become so good that it will be great on its own.
Voxel sculpting is intended ONLY to be another OPTION. I don't see it as ever being the core of the application or intended to be separate. It's supposed to an integral part, along with all the other tools...and as such, it simply works.

Your whole tone here is extremely negative and disparaging, when there is so much to like. There is nothing I can't sculpt, if I wanted to...in it's current state.

Is there room for improvement? Sure....but the application has just taken a major leap forward, and I'm not going to sit here and condemn it for some of the things it doesn't yet have. If you like ZB and MB so very well...spend your time more wisely and go use them. As it stands, 3DC is an extremely good balance between BodyPaint 3D and and ZBrush, and yet offers a few key tools that neither of them offer. Because of that, I'm too excited about what I can do in 3DC TODAY to waste time groaning and moaning about niggly litte things it doesn't yet do, or do quite as well as Mudbox or ZBrush.

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"Voxel sculpting is intended ONLY to be another OPTION. I don't see it as ever being the core of the application or intended to be separate. It's supposed to an integral part, along with all the other tools...and as such, it simply works"

Its interesting how you quote that particular selection without the context the beginning of that same paragraph gives.

I dont mean 3dcoat's focus should shift entirely. As you can see by both zbrush (sculpt + paint + retopo) and mbox (sculpt + paint) the current feature set is really strong.

Ill rephrase the paragraph for you. I hope that 3dcoat's voxel sculpting module becomes as good as its other two modules. Both of which are single reasons that people buy 3dcoat for. Best painting, best retopoing and hopefully soon really good sculpting. Currently voxel sculpting is the stephchild. It doesnt have to outshine the others but there is a good possibility it can and that would not be a bad thing.

"There is nothing I can't sculpt, if I wanted to..."

While you have a nice showreel on your site i seem to have missed out on all the voxelsculpts you posted on the forum. Surely since you are working on a commercial tutorial dvd set with kurvstudios you would have started voxel sculpting during the alpha and have lots of doodles to show for it? Especially since "it simply works".

As far as the references to mudbox and zbrush this has a very simple reason. I get constant flack over this and yet will not let it go. I do not want another zbrush nor another mudbox. I want 3dcoat. But the truth is that 3dcoat, new techonology or not, is just another digital sculpting application. It moves in a field where there are alternatives to achieve the same things.

Most people who use zbrush or mudbox and try 3dcoat disregard it for sculpting as inferior. I have seen voxel works online on blogs and forums that are on par and sometimes outshine the work that has been posted on this forum (except for renderdemon). Yet, almost all these people also disregard 3dcoat for sculpting. Even renderdemon himself said he loved the app but that it wasnt very usefull for production (yet). The difference between those people and me (leaving artistic skill out of the equasion) is that i actually care enough not to just disregard it and i am crictical enough not to turn into a blind fanboy. Just because im critical does not mean i dont have a warm heart for 3dcoat. If i didnt i wouldnt be here replying to you.

When 3dcoat's development just started there was no indication how usefull 3dcoat's voxel sculpting would be. What would be possible. How it would perform. But as development continued it began to become blatantly clear that it performs well enough for high resolution sculpting. I can put pores on my sculpts just fine. But i cant quickly and easily make a decent sharp eyelid. This has more to do with the lack of freeze and problematic brush behaviour then anything else. Yet this is what seperates 3dcoat in a negative way from mb/zb.

Compared to the technological groundwork that has been done i find it terrible (to this very day) that the homestretch where the sculpting itself is made powerfull and accesible has lost to the release of v3. When i may seem critical or even harsh its not because of the things i dont like, but because of the things i do like in 3dcoat. Its a simple fact faults or weaknesses do not get remedied by only pointing at the good things..

3dioot

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3didiot quote:Most people who use zbrush or mudbox and try 3dcoat disregard it for sculpting as inferior. I have seen voxel works online on blogs and forums that are on par and sometimes outshine the work that has been posted on this forum (except for renderdemon).

Amazing! You have wonderfully and eloquently disregarded the many good works I have seen posted here on this forum.I guess you have either missed my works in progress or have failed to look at the voxel sculpting gallery lately.After 20 years of traditional sculpting under my belt and many months of 3d-coat practice I guess it's your opinion that it's still not good enough.Why don't you post the links of other voxel sculpts online that "outshine" all these works.

Maybe I should stop contributing here till my work is perfect.

3D-Coat is good enough and will only get better.Perfection takes time.

Rick

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 5:16

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You know i admire your work tree321. All the way back to the first voxel sculpt ive seen from which was an elephant if i remember correctly. Thats not the matter thats discussed here nor do i think i worded it in such a way that you or anyone else would take offense at it.

My point was that great voxel sculpts are not only made on this forum. Many people that visit this forum have been 3dcoat users, and fans, from before version 3 so you can expect a fair amount of bias. Ofcourse voxel sculpting is great if it wasnt there before and your allready a fan of the application and using its painting and retopo. Hence my reference to artists outside the 3dcoat forums. People that may try out v3 specifically for the voxel sculpting. Im sorry if i offended you or anyone else's work.

If you still want me to post the works i regard as great that are created outside of this 3dcoat community feel free to say so and ill post some up.

3dioot

PS

You know what. Reading it back i guess i can see how you could take offense at that (i should have left the renderdemon reference out). I am sorry. I still have to say i find your reaction a bit surprising. While you may have 20 years under your belt your not the only traditional sculptor who has crossed into the digital realm. Therefore i can guarantee you your not alone in the quality of work you produce. Regardless this discussion is not going anywhere. If you guys want to praise 3dcoat to high heaven by all means do so. If i would think of it as a shitty app i wouldnt have bought it anyway. Here is the link to one of the works ive found outside of 3dcoat which i think of as high quality (or at least very aesthestically pleasing to me even in its unfinished state). image Here is the original on the blog so you can read his comments as well. blog. This so i dont have to check this thread back to find people jumping up and down for me to post it. Id still love to see some voxelsculpts from abnranger.

This just got posted in the voxel wip section. skull post. I guess im done. ^_^ (lol)

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I guess we'll just leave it at that.I have no doubt some fine voxel sculpts will make it to this forum as time goes on.This is a very young program and most of us are still trying to master it's possibilities.I think so much could be improved with 3D-Coat and am looking forward to seeing it fully developed.You as well as many others have made some very good suggestions on improving this software, and if these suggestions are implemented the skies the limit.

I think we need to start a new thread of feature requests and suggestions for version 4.0.It would be nice to have a vote bot for the most desired features or improvements so Andrew can focus on those areas.

Masking

Posing

Brushes

Painting\Textures

Performance

Vox Tree

Interface

Work flow

Etc.

Sculpting heads does not show the full potential of 3DC.Things become a whole lot more complicated when working with 50 vox tree layers.This work flow needs to be improved for sure.

Peace,

Rick

post-913-1245700409_thumb.jpg

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...While you have a nice showreel on your site i seem to have missed out on all the voxelsculpts you posted on the forum. Surely since you are working on a commercial tutorial dvd set with kurvstudios you would have started voxel sculpting during the alpha and have lots of doodles to show for it? Especially since "it simply works"
Please find where you see me offering DVD training or working with Kurv studios. I think you have someone else in mind...Javis (Geothefaust)

I'm like many here, still trying to get comfortable with the application, and since the manual hasn't yet caught up with the newest releases, I'm having to largely rely on guys like Javis. Nevertheless, I've used it enough to appreciate its capabilities, and am excited about it...so much so that I'm trying to fit it in on current projects, and am looking forward to showing WIP's like others here.

In the end, have a little patience. Andrew has brought this application from nothing to the point of competing with industry applications like ZB and MB in RECORD-BREAKING time. I hope you can appreciate that.

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Your right i am thinking of someone else. Still looking forward to seeing your works where you've used voxel sculpting.

If only i had the faith that patience (and a little investment through a purchase) was all that was required. I would probably be able to enjoy it more till Andrew comes back and continues development. You seem to think every shortcoming thats in v3 has to do with the time frame it was developed in. I disagree especially after i read the alpha thread from back to front to refresh my memory. This is probably why i dont think patience is enough.

Nevertheless this bickering that i create is not awfully productive. The fact that wild praise ("it simply works" with no works to show for it) gets on my nerves and gives in my opinion a false image both to Andrew and potential customers is my problem and not yours.

I do enjoy sculpting in voxels and i guess ill just focus on improving my general sculpting skills with the occasional tutorial video as my way of helping 3dcoat along.

Ciao

3dioot

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Your right i am thinking of someone else. Still looking forward to seeing your works where you've used voxel sculpting.

If only i had the faith that patience (and a little investment through a purchase) was all that was required. I would probably be able to enjoy it more till Andrew comes back and continues development. You seem to think every shortcoming thats in v3 has to do with the time frame it was developed in. I disagree especially after i read the alpha thread from back to front to refresh my memory. This is probably why i dont think patience is enough.

Nevertheless this bickering that i create is not awfully productive. The fact that wild praise ("it simply works" with no works to show for it) gets on my nerves and gives in my opinion a false image both to Andrew and potential customers is my problem and not yours.

I do enjoy sculpting in voxels and i guess ill just focus on improving my general sculpting skills with the occasional tutorial video as my way of helping 3dcoat along.

Ciao

3dioot

As was said before, there are plenty of examples of work for you to see what's been done. Best option for you, it seems, is to use what you know, and maybe check back later...if you know 3DC so well that you KNOW it can't do what you want it to.
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  • 2 weeks later...
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Can i just drag back to the question that was intially asked, It depends on what for, If you are hoping to seamlessly link to completely different meshes then it might be difficult from a sculpting point of view but i have succeeded in blending split different resolution voxel volumes. By that please see my very rushed video Last post on my WIP thread. You can split volumes and increase voxel level in one and blend it back to original for high detail areas with no visable seam. This is sculptural as is the Zbrush method the diffeerence in zbrush is you can work on multiple seperate object (not subtools), in 3D coat if you could sulpt two volumes at once (I dont mean merge two, I simply mean affect two volumes) you may be able to do the same?

- leigh

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Can i just drag back to the question that was intially asked, It depends on what for, If you are hoping to seamlessly link to completely different meshes then it might be difficult from a sculpting point of view but i have succeeded in blending split different resolution voxel volumes. By that please see my very rushed video Last post on my WIP thread. You can split volumes and increase voxel level in one and blend it back to original for high detail areas with no visable seam. This is sculptural as is the Zbrush method the diffeerence in zbrush is you can work on multiple seperate object (not subtools), in 3D coat if you could sulpt two volumes at once (I dont mean merge two, I simply mean affect two volumes) you may be able to do the same?

- leigh

Example

post-1266-1246651351_thumb.jpg

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