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[Solved] Importing high poly objects for painting


simmsimaging
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I show u this becoz u said u cant import decimated mashes for per pixel p.And if u hawe uvs before decimation and save an lover resolution of Zb model u kan use it to pain.For my model the uvs are the same for the low rez zb model and the decimated mash.

Zbrush its faster becoze its using subdiv levels.I test polypainting on decimated model and its realy fluid and i think Zb handels better high numbers of poligons.So 3d coat needs subdiv levels (my thinking)

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I show u this becoz u said u cant import decimated mashes for per pixel p.And if u hawe uvs before decimation and save an lover resolution of Zb model u kan use it to pain.For my model the uvs are the same for the low rez zb model and the decimated mash.

Zbrush its faster becoze its using subdiv levels.If u want to paint on the decimated model i bet its mowing mutch slower.

So 3d coat needs subdiv levels (my thinking)

You are correct: I was not able to import my decimated meshes - but mine were nearly twice the size or yours (900K +) so maybe that's why yours worked and mine didn't. Anyway, you are right that if you have it UV'd prior to decimation then you can work as per normal and just paint on the lo-res mesh, but the decimated UV's and the lo-res non-decimated UV's do not match exactly and you get texture artifacts/oddness when using the maps painted for one on the other. In some cases that may not matter, but it is not accurate enough for my use.

For me it is better to have a more exact match of lo and hi res, so either both are decimated, or neither are, and then the painted maps work no problem - but getting lo and hi decimated meshes is proving problematic. Right now the only hold up is you have to UV *before* decimation, because doing it after causes other issues. In most cases this should be fine, but in this one case I screwed up the UV's.

b

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I think it could be res related, the attached is the new map (painted at 8K via Per-Pixel on the new "medium" res mesh made as per Artman's direction) but rendered at 2K via TExture Baking. It's not just lo-res, it's totally messed. Is this expected?

b

post-1221-12654109395172_thumb.png

It's looking like this problem is coming from the UV's out of Zbrush. I redid the process and I can get the artifacts in Zbrush as well. It is something to do with AUV tiling on decimated meshes. I am not yet sure if this happens with GUV/PUV or other modes as the mesh is too dense for that, so I'll try it on lower res.

I am really just getting the vibe that you should just make sure you have some decent UV's long before you ever think about decimating, then you should be able to use one of several methods outlined in this thread.

b

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For my model i cant find any strange uvs on the decimated mash.In my opinion if u hawe uvs before u decimate and save an lover sdiv level in Zb u get nice results.It is important to check keep uvs .The texture is made for an very low In game model (3,200 polys)but all difrent mashes hawe same uvs.In my case the uvs are identic.in the pictures are the decimated and the lower res mash from Zb(almost 54,400 polys)

Zbrush can import uvs after u model al u want .I seen an tutorial an he say that u need an model with same vertex order on the lowest sdiv level .so u have the ztool on sdiv level 1 and import an mash with same vertex order that has uvs made in external prog.After he import the mash he culd change the sdiv levels and have new uvs.(every subtool has its own imported mash i think.)

post-2253-12656493171283_thumb.jpg

post-2253-12656493238601_thumb.jpg

post-2253-12656493298077_thumb.jpg

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For my model i cant find any strange uvs on the decimated mash.In my opinion if u hawe uvs before u decimate and save an lover sdiv level in Zb u get nice results.It is important to check keep uvs .The texture is made for an very low In game model (3,200 polys)but all difrent mashes hawe same uvs.In my case the uvs are identic.in the pictures are the decimated and the lower res mash from Zb(almost 40,000 polys)

Zbrush can import uvs after u model al u want .I seen an tutorial an he say that u need an model with same vertex order on the lowest sdiv level .so u have the ztool on sdiv level 1 and import an mash with same vertex order that has uvs made in external prog.After he import the mash he culd change the sdiv levels and have new uvs.(every subtool has its own imported mash i think.)

It may just be that your maps are more forgiving - not sure. Here are two images. I UV'd the object in Zbrush using PUV, sub-divided to 2-3M polys. Exported a lo-res (about 30K) poly's and then decimated to create a 300K Decimated hi-res and exported that. I imported the non-decimated lo-res into 3DC and roughed out this map. Both were imported into Max and the same map was applied to both - you can see the different results.

However, the results are even worse when I do this using the two decimation level approach. The UV's from the decimated lo-res are even more screwed up compared to the hi-res decimated mesh. My feeling is that decimation is not going to be very useful for real accurate detail, unless I'm doing something else wrong.

b

post-1221-1265651548364_thumb.png

post-1221-12656515543105_thumb.png

EDIT: just to be clear - this is a map painted on the lo-res UV"d object, and then applied to the same, and then applied to the result of the decimation process. The map painted for the lo-res pre-decimated mesh do not work on the decimated mesh very well.

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It may just be that your maps are more forgiving - not sure. Here are two images. I UV'd the object in Zbrush using PUV, sub-divided to 2-3M polys. Exported a lo-res (about 30K) poly's and then decimated to create a 300K Decimated hi-res and exported that. I imported the non-decimated lo-res into 3DC and roughed out this map. Both were imported into Max and the same map was applied to both - you can see the different results.

It seams looking at his first ZB pics that he is using real handmade uvs.

It must be hard for Decimation master to preseve Uvs quality from automated tilings.

I still dont understand why Zb choke on Project all tough.

I dont have a crazy machine and i can reproject 1-3 mil betwwen 2-8 minutes max.

-The best would be to create a very low unified skin 100-000.

-Then PUV.

-Then subdivide up to 3mil

-Append your decimated as subtool.

-Then Project all

-Export level 1 and last subd Level

-now 3DC import big mesh should work like charm.

Of course,you already tried that..but still,I think it is besh approach for your actual situation.

Maybe you dont wait long enough for Project all to finish?How long does Zb estimate projection time?

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It seams looking at his first ZB pics that he is using real handmade uvs.

It must be hard for Decimation master to preseve Uvs quality from automated tilings.

I still dont understand why Zb choke on Project all tough.

I dont have a crazy machine and i can reproject 1-3 mil betwwen 2-8 minutes max.

-The best would be to create a very low unified skin 100-000.

-Then PUV.

-Then subdivide up to 3mil

-Append your decimated as subtool.

-Then Project all

-Export level 1 and last subd Level

-now 3DC import big mesh should work like charm.

Of course,you already tried that..but still,I think it is besh approach for your actual situation.

Maybe you dont wait long enough for Project all to finish?How long does Zb estimate projection time?

I did try it that way but It did not even give me an estimated time. However, last night I decided to try again and it ran for 7 hours but was just hanging - no result. If I uploaded the mesh would you be willing to give it a try? This is driving me nuts.

b

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I did try it that way but It did not even give me an estimated time. However, last night I decided to try again and it ran for 7 hours but was just hanging - no result. If I uploaded the mesh would you be willing to give it a try? This is driving me nuts.

b

Sure,its definitely not normal...

Upload it Ill send you back a paintready .3b file + higres .obj with same Uvs to receive maps.

I wonder if the fact that decimated mesh has Auvs on can affect project all speed...

That would be weird considering that Uvs are not needed in the process..

(You can add password to .rar and pm me password if it is client work..)

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Sure,its definitely not normal...

Upload it Ill send you back a paintready .3b file + higres .obj with same Uvs to receive maps.

I wonder if the fact that decimated mesh has Auvs on can affect project all speed...

That would be weird considering that Uvs are not needed in the process..

(You can add password to .rar and pm me password if it is client work..)

Really appreciate you taking the time. I just PM'd you a link for the Ztool version of the mesh (already decimated - this would be my "final" hi-res mesh)

b

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Really appreciate you taking the time. I just PM'd you a link for the Ztool version of the mesh (already decimated - this would be my "final" hi-res mesh)

b

Its done.

i got 2 files for you.

- 1x .obj file to use in Vray that exact level of details as Decimated mesh and 1.5mil.

- 1x .3b file to paint that has also exact level of details of Decimated Mesh.

All exported maps from 3dC paint file can be loaded on the hires .obj.

Im uploading to mediafire now but it says its gonna take 45min to upload..problem is I need to go to work now...

So you will have file in your PM in about 5 hours... :)

Then,I will also elaborate on workflow used(Project all didnt worked on my side either..)

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On left is Decimated Hires from your .Zlt, On the right is Hires export from microvertex.

It is the exact mesh you will be painting on in 3DC.

I looked at them closely,there is no loss of details and polycount is similar.

In zbrush the 3DCoat export object look a little better than the same object in Paintroom but they are the same I just exported from Paint room without any changes.(Zbrush shading makes object look better.)

Here is workflow used,I think it was my first or second suggestion.

-made a lowpoly Unified Skin out of your Decimated Hires

-applied Puv to Unified skin lowpoly and exported to .obj

-exported decimated Hires as well to .obj

In 3DCoat

-import Hires as Reference Mesh

-import lowpoly in retopo room

-merge to Microvertex using those settings

:300k carcass mesh

:4millions polys (to match texture size)

:2048x2048 texture size(2048x2048=4194304polys)

Merging was very fast,and result is what you get when loading the .3b I sent you.

Painting is fast enough(only deleting layers seams to be slow)

Then I deleted the Reference mesh.

Cleared the Retopo mesh.

And used File-Export Hires Mesh(first iteration=4x carcass mesh(approx 1.3 million polys)

The result is the .obj you see in screenshot above and that you can use in your Vray render,

All exported maps from the .3b file will perfectly fit on that .obj without artifacts.

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Did you try this in zbrush?

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5105&pid=38173&st=0entry38173

export the results to 3dc

You need Uvs to use Reconstruct Subd function,and he had a 1.5 million decimated mesh with no UVS which would clog

at any attempts to assign Zbrush automatic ones.

It is a good method tough (this one and the one using ProjectAll+Unified skin are the fastest (but this one would not work either.. :( )

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On left is Decimated Hires from your .Zlt, On the right is Hires export from microvertex.

It is the exact mesh you will be painting on in 3DC.

I looked at them closely,there is no loss of details and polycount is similar.

In zbrush the 3DCoat export object look a little better than the same object in Paintroom but they are the same I just exported from Paint room without any changes.(Zbrush shading makes object look better.)

Here is workflow used,I think it was my first or second suggestion.

-made a lowpoly Unified Skin out of your Decimated Hires

-applied Puv to Unified skin lowpoly and exported to .obj

-exported decimated Hires as well to .obj

In 3DCoat

-import Hires as Reference Mesh

-import lowpoly in retopo room

-merge to Microvertex using those settings

:300k carcass mesh

:4millions polys (to match texture size)

:2048x2048 texture size(2048x2048=4194304polys)

Merging was very fast,and result is what you get when loading the .3b I sent you.

Painting is fast enough(only deleting layers seams to be slow)

Then I deleted the Reference mesh.

Cleared the Retopo mesh.

And used File-Export Hires Mesh(first iteration=4x carcass mesh(approx 1.3 million polys)

The result is the .obj you see in screenshot above and that you can use in your Vray render,

All exported maps from the .3b file will perfectly fit on that .obj without artifacts.

Thanks very much for taking the time to do this Artman - I really appreciate it.

I think this method will work great for most things. There is a loss of fine detail between the original mesh and the new mesh, which is something I'd hoped to save, but it's the level of detail that could be done with a normal/bump map which could be painted up in 3DC anyway.

Or I could go back to your first suggestion with this model and use this method and texture bake back to the original full res mesh. The only problem with that route is the messed up UV's you get out of Zbrush with a decimated mesh.

It's certainly worlds better than where I was - thanks again for all the help. I owe you one.

b

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Ok,I see loss of details now...

hmmm,I think for this method to work,the final 0utput mesh would have been 10mil... :pardon:

I can still send you an higher version but you probably decimated it in the first to not deal with a model above 2mil..

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Ok,I see loss of details now...

hmmm,I think for this method to work,the final 0utput mesh would have been 5mil... :pardon:

I can still send you an higher version but you probably decimated in the first to not deal with a model above 2mil..

Yeah, the original mesh was around 6-8M poly's (forget now) and I decimated it because this is one of several pieces in the final image and the poly count was getting out of hand. Even using proxies the rendertimes were skyrocketing. Also wanted to play with sculpting more and couldn't sub-d beyond that on my system (didn't want to use HD geometry because I wanted actual geometry to work with).

Really the only way to get the hi-res final mesh that I want is to live with minor artifacts, not decimate the mesh, or find a way to UV a high poly decimated mesh outside of ZB. AUV/PUV/GUV all create useless UV's - that is where that artifact problem with the baked textures was coming from. Unfortunately I have no other practical way of doing UV's for a 1.2M poly object.

b

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