Advanced Member ghib Posted July 9, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Tiling Engine 'Sandbox Tiler' - Fill with Voxels ***Please support this idea on Trello*** I have had this idea of a system whereby we can create easily Tiling textures using Voxels ever since Andrew started working on the Alpha for V3. The easiest things to compare it to are Zbrush's Tiling Canvas or Corel's Painter Pattern making function where you paint and your brush will go off the edge of the canvas and wrap around to the opposite side. Therefore creating easily tiling textures without worry. The difference here being that you are using actual voxel geometry in 3DC instead of on just a 2D canvas. I mocked up 3 images using Silo & photoshop to help demonstrate what I mean by this. It should work in theory very much like the Tiling Grid from the start up screen if you've ever used it. Advantages for using Geometry instead of painting bump (the two can be used in conjunction - paint high detail bump at the end of the process) -You can get a much nicer normal map that works better with game lighting engines. -You can extract an exact tiling 32Bit Displacement map for high resolution rendering. -Visualising the placement of objects in 3d space (e.g. overlapping bricks, grout, moss in cracks on different layers etc.) -works with Merge Tool -works with all Tools & Brushes -exactly replicates states of point cloud & surface that wrap around at the extents of the sandbox. Let me know what you think as I can imagine this would be of a lot of use to artists creating Tiling textures for games/film. p.s. Just realised how 'Tomorrow's World' this request is. Maybe by 3DC V4 or V5 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3DArtist Posted July 9, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 This looks like a great idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wailingmonkey Posted July 9, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Nice proposal, ghib...this would be a fantastic asset/ability to work with in 3DC. I've also wondered if this could be possible with a bit of work on our side currently...using the 2D-grid and the Carve tool (with ctrl and the square pen via 'E' panel) on a fixed camera view.....but we'd have quite a bit of dancing around with mirroring/cloning etc. Love to see Andrew implement this at some point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted July 9, 2009 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 9, 2009 Thanks for feedback guys. wailingmonkey, I've tried many times to work out a system for creating tiling textures using geometry in Zbrush & Mudbox. The closest I can get to it without sending the mesh to a 3d app like XSI,Maya, Max etc and doing the bake there (similar to the way Kevin Johnstone creates his modular pieces), is by dropping tools to the canvas in Zbrush and grabbing the doc. The problem with this is that once dropped to the canvas you're no longer able to use any of the sculpting tools on the result so you'd better be sure you're happy with the look of your tool before you do. If there were some method for implementing my crude Sandbox example in 3DC it would be a far more fluid and accurate way for achieving tiling textures using hires sculpts than hacking together various normal maps in Photoshop. I want to express here that the fidelity of the edges in the Sandbox is ultimately important to this tool. In Zbrush even though you have created a perfectly tiling texture in it's native canvas.. you still must do some editing in Photoshop to fix errors that exist in it's MRGZB or Grab Doc tools. The success of this tool relies on being able to extract an accurate tiling bake without having to do any further editing. If such a thing is possible. Fingers crossed. p.s. As an addendum it would be useful to be able to set different dimensions for the Sandbox. ie 1024x1024 or 1024x512 etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 I love this idea too. Some day I will implement it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted July 10, 2009 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 *Does a little dance* So glad you like. I have a bunch more ideas for it but will keep a personal note until the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member kay_Eva Posted July 12, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 i want!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Mix Mash Posted February 6, 2010 Member Report Share Posted February 6, 2010 I made this tutorial a while ago and it may be relative. The idea is that you have a proxy textured object that conforms to your original model then you 'transfer' the texture from your proxy model to your final textured model. Having something like proxy texturing could implement a repeat tiling option on the proxy model. That way you could 'sandbox' texture your model in a more controlled way. I do like the idea of sandbox tiling but there may be issues because you have to turn you model around afterwards then you have to see the result of your brush stroke. You may not be happy with how the stroke end up and would have to blindly redo the stroke. One option would be a combination of your idea and mine where you can create a curve or a proxy plane where you can tile a texture, manipulate the mesh to fit around your object then press enter to transfer the texture (or parts of it) to your model. It's sandbox but more manual, less freeform. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted October 30, 2010 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I've recently been creating tiling textures (ground/dirt/bark etc) for use in a render that I'm working on and have been looking at various techniques for creating tiling geometry in Mudbox & Zbrush. see here Most of the techniques involve a lot of workaround and guesswork and none of which seem to me to be particularly artist friendly. Now that 3DC is a slightly more mature app and the brush engine has been worked on I'd just like to bring this idea to Andrew's attention again in the hope that it will one day see it in. Creating tiling 32bit displacement maps are still a major pain. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted January 20, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 Following up on this (dream) with some ideas if ever it will see the light of day Baked sandbox can be sent straight through to the Paint room and applied to a grid (both tiling & non-tiling). Normal maps applied at top, Paint layers created with masks attached. see below Alpha Masks are also created and transferred over and applied to relevant Paint layers as masks. Intelligent repeat tool which can calculate the perfect spacing required in horizontal or vertical regardless of where object is within the sandbox. Based on Voxel information in a single layer. Useful for making intricate filigree patterns, cornicing and other common Architectural detailing. Depending on how the 'wrap-around area' is displayed. If it is with repeated voxels and speed is an issue the proxy (wrap-around) density can be set lower by the user. Ability to set user grid - Think Modo's Work grid but able to rotate also. This would make it easier to create off kilter tiling textures. Hope to see this one day. It would be unbelievably useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member polyxo Posted January 20, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 20, 2011 This has to implemented because of its beautiful illustrations already... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member martinni Posted January 21, 2011 Member Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 I want this! Very nicely illustrated ghib Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted January 21, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Thanks for the support chaps. I'd hate to see this idea sent to the warehouse as I know I'd use it every single day. The thought of opening up Zbrush for this sort of work fills me with dread; I just find working with the zb manipulator so cumbersome and dropping tools to the canvas (fixed in place) is just a horrible way of working. It's so unforgiving. If any of you have any further ideas or suggestions for this tool then feel free to brainstorm. It's got loads of potential. I've just had another idea... ... A simple scatter on surface tool would be great for filling with rubble, twigs etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Digital777 Posted January 21, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 A simple scatter on surface tool would be great for filling with rubble, twigs etc. Yeah that would be really cool, this was actually discussed recently - http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7322 Something like object spray would be better as a new tool though i think, this tool would be very useful for loads of things. Also if you have a seamless tile this is great for terrains so other things that go great with that would be surface noise and weather/decay effects - http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7356 http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=4306&st=0&p=33438entry33438 In the second thread the main request would also be great which is particles with natural/slope build up which would also work well as a mode for object scatter. Merge tool is great but new tools like these would take things to the next level of greatness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Digital777 Posted January 22, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 Now that farsthary is part of the 3DC the team i think the main focus will be the unlimited clay style stuff but hopefully terrain/voxel noise will also be developed. There was a blender project for planet textures - http://farsthary.wordpress.com/2010/11/24/new-planet-procedural-texture Right now alphas can be used but these types of seamless noises to distort/sculpt a surface with randomness would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Mighty Pea Posted January 22, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 22, 2011 This would be an amazing tool! I don't currently own 3dcoat as I've got other software to do most things, so I can't justify the cost (although I do follow development, and I like what I see), but this tool would be very useful indeed. As mentioned, Zbrush might at first seem like a great tool for this sort of thing, but it's severely lacking in this department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member gbball Posted January 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 This is a great idea! it would be really good for creating large environments and probably other things I can't think of now. Looking forward to seeing this in a future version of the program! -G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted January 23, 2011 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 23, 2011 Oh yeah, farsthary seems like the perfect choice for expanding the Pilgway team with a good balance of energy, creativity & efficient coding. Exciting stuff. I can see the tools all complimenting each other, feeding into and out of the sandbox tiler from the main voxel room. So utilising everything that already exists in the Voxel toolset. Anyway fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member maxfax09 Posted January 25, 2011 Member Report Share Posted January 25, 2011 this would be so great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member rs3d Posted February 3, 2011 Member Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Excellent idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted March 30, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted August 15, 2012 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 15, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted August 16, 2012 Contributor Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Are you planting asparagus? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted August 16, 2012 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 16, 2012 Best time of year for it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member popwfx Posted January 8, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 +1 Someday is now. Hopefully. I love this idea too, as long as it also works in the paint room. Ideally it doesn't even have to be an exact square tile, just defined edges that match up. Rectangles and trapezoid shapes should also work. Please get to this for a 4.x update! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted January 8, 2013 Report Share Posted January 8, 2013 Mantis request opened http://3d-coat.com/mantis/view.php?id=886 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member genic Posted January 9, 2013 Member Report Share Posted January 9, 2013 Aww YES! I wanted to have something like this for such a long time. This would make my life so much easier. I thought it would be picked up by various programs once the dynamic tessellation came up. I really can not explain to myself why it is such a rare pearl still. This really would be a game changer. I must agree that voxels would be the perfect medium for it though. Please, pretty please as soon as possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member ghib Posted January 22, 2013 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 22, 2013 Hey guys, weird to see this resurrected. Thanks for supporting this idea and thanks carlosa for adding it to Mantis, something I probably should've done ages ago. genic; you have no idea how often I've need this tool. It would've made my job so much easier and possibly more fun. photonvfx: Yeah non-uniform sandbox sizes and corresponding Plane & Mapping would be essential I think. I've all but given up on it ever getting implemented to be honest as it's now 3 years, 6 months and 14 days since I came up with the idea and unbelievably there still isn't a great option for this type of normal map creation. So frustrating. The closest thing really is using the Mudbox tiling plane which, if you've ever used it, really isn't that intuitive or versatile. boom boom I'm afraid this one might be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted March 19, 2013 Report Share Posted March 19, 2013 Can i ask if... Tileable 3d textures http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11454&hl=tiling&fromsearch=1 and Tileable voxel mode http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6518&view=findpost&p=88179&hl=tiling&fromsearch=1 solve this request ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member genic Posted March 20, 2013 Member Report Share Posted March 20, 2013 They do not for me, no. i did try the instance trick but it is not what i had in mind at all. It is actually been around for quite some time and i have been aware of it before i backed this sandbox approach we have been talking about here. For me the request is still standing. ... Still, not a day goes by where i would not have gotten good use out of such a feature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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