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Symmetry problems


ajz3d
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Go to solution Solved by TimmyZDesign,

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The image depicts the following volumes

- head

- eyes

Both have symmetry axes set to X.

The thing is, only head volume maintains the proper axis (yellow vertical line). The eyes, created from spherical primitives, do not. Their symmetry axis (green line) is off place, What's going on? How do I alter eyes' symmetry axis to match head's?

post-12523-0-20235300-1362705250_thumb.j

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Turn off symmetry, delete one of your eyeballs, then turn symmetry back on. Then right-click on the vox layer for the eyeball and choose To Global Space. This will reset the symmetry plane to "0" on the x axis. Then go to the Voxel menu and choose Vox Sym to recreate the other eyeball across the correct symmetry plane. If that doesn't work, then you might need to draw something on the eyeball (with the Grow brush for instance) in order to tell 3D-Coat which side of the symmetry plane to copy from. You can undo the Grow brush operation, but 3D-Coat will remember which side of the symmetry plane was last touched, so it will know where to create the Vox Sym.

In any case, this seems to be a common problem with 3D-Coat users. I've seen this question answered on the forums so many times!

I think I will make a Feature Request on Mantis someday to have Virtual Mirror Mode extended past the Retopo Room to include the Voxel room. Then we could easily put eyeballs in our sculpts without all this hassle.

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Ha ha, it's working.

Although I can't say I'm satisfied with all those work-arounds that always have to be applied in order to achieve something that basic. Please Timmy, if you find time, do report this to Mantis.

And... thank you very much man! You really saved my day! :)

P.S. Oh, I've noticed that when you create a primitive and enable its symmetry, then when you choose the Transform tool, the pivot gets placed between the symmetrical volumes instead of in the middle of one of them. This is wrong I think.

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Not sure you should be using symetry on eyes .That means its technically one object when it should be two objects.Anyway thats how I do it.Usually make an eye...duplicate it...then just move it across or flip it. But I only make "placeholder eyes" in Coat ,I use Carrara for making the final eyes usually. Eyes are the most important part of a model,because thats where you naturally look first....its human nature! And try to turn of symetry for the head at somepoint before you finish sculpting, the only symmetrical things in the world are man made. Get yourself two mirrors and see yourself as you are ,see how unsymetrical your face is..........or is it just me :(

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Couldn't "placeholder eyes" be one object just fine? As to striving for a lttle asymmetry, shall the ease of retopology be sacrificed on the alter of virisimilitude? Or the ease of creating facial morphs when working with vertices in your animation app? Do you delete or hide your placeholders when in retopo?

"P.S. Oh, I've noticed that when you create a primitive and enable its symmetry, then when you choose the Transform tool, the pivot gets placed between the symmetrical volumes instead of in the middle of one of them. This is wrong I think."

It's logical. As Stu so aptly put it, it's one object and the transform tool finds it's center.

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Not sure you should be using symetry on eyes .That means its technically one object when it should be two objects.Anyway thats how I do it.Usually make an eye...duplicate it...then just move it across or flip it. But I only make "placeholder eyes" in Coat ,I use Carrara for making the final eyes usually. Eyes are the most important part of a model,because thats where you naturally look first....its human nature! And try to turn of symetry for the head at somepoint before you finish sculpting, the only symmetrical things in the world are man made. Get yourself two mirrors and see yourself as you are ,see how unsymetrical your face is..........or is it just me :(

Hey, hold your horses Stusutcliffe. :rofl: I just started with this model, that's why it's so perfectly symmetrical and I will keep it in this state until I'm finished with the blocking and some general detail sculpting. I'll break the symmetry after reaching a certain point.

The eyes are just what you said - a kind of temporary replacement to give me the overall looks of the sculpture, etc. :pardon:

Couldn't "placeholder eyes" be one object just fine?

I don't see anything wrong with eyes being one object too. They can always be easily separated and then tweaked in your favourite 3D package you use for animation or rendering.

As to striving for a lttle asymmetry, shall the ease of retopology be sacrificed on the alter of verisimilitude? Or the ease of creating facial morphs when working with vertices in your animation app?

Depends. I think sometimes it's worth additional work and sometimes it isn't. I wouldn't bother with de-symmetrising a background character, but I certainly would do it to hero or a secondary one.

It's logical. As Stu so aptly put it, it's one object and the transform tool finds it's center.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

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  • 6 months later...
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Ok guys, I'm material painting from a nice asymmetrical texture I made in pshop. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to turn off the symmetry. Andrew told me to turn off the mirror texturing in UV room but I can't figure out where or how. The regular symmetry on/off functions are being overridden somewhere else and that is suspect. Can someone please give me some help here?

Thanks,

J

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In the Paint Room, you can hit the "S" key to bring up the Symmetry Panel and check "No Symmetry." But it you have overlapping UV islands (ie. the UV island for the left arm is aligned directly over the right arm), you effectively SET it up to paint in Symmetry no matter what.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Z5h8T0c7BU&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PLlQ3JITh9bXOfcZqGuO8gClZisN6yUd1x

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I've recently found out how to get symmetry for transformations/transposing, and I remembered this thread, so I thought I would post it here for people who encounter this problem in the future.

 

SOLUTION: Use the Pose Tool with "select object" mode in the Tool Options panel.

 

This solution was provided by Artman in the following thread (more detailed info provided there):

http://3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=15100&hl=

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  • 1 month later...
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Does anyone experience an issue where in ortho view, the symmetry isn't perfect? Maybe it's just the way the shading in the viewport is making the model appear?  I just redid part of my model three times from scratch to make sure my eyes aren't deceiving me. Can someone help me understand what I'm looking at here?

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Does anyone experience an issue where in ortho view, the symmetry isn't perfect? Maybe it's just the way the shading in the viewport is making the model appear? I just redid part of my model three times from scratch to make sure my eyes aren't deceiving me. Can someone help me understand what I'm looking at here?

A few possible reasons for imperfect symmetry:

1. It could be that the voxels in your model have become "non-uniform". Look at the bottom of your viewport to see if a warning message has appeared in red letters saying, "Non uniform". If that is the case, then right-click on the voxel layer in the voxtree, and choose "to uniform space" to correct it.

2. Your symmetry plane might be slightly off-center (it is possible to manually move the symmetry plane in 3D-Coat to allow for more modeling options). To return your symmetry plane to the exact world-space origin, right-click on your voxel layer and choose "to global space". To get a visual preview of the location of your symmetry plane, make sure the visibility option is turned on in the symmetry menu, and also make sure one of the symmetry options there are activated.

3. After completing number 1 and 2, then you can repair the symmetry in your model by performing the Vox Sym command in the Voxel menu. Check to make sure symmetry is turned on, and then perform the command. If it does not appear to work, then 3D-Coat might not know which side of the symmetry plane you are trying to copy. If that is the case, use a sculpting tool (such as the Grow brush) to "touch" one side of the model so that 3D-Coat will know which side to copy. You can undo the "touch", but 3D-Coat will remember the side you chose. Then try the Vox Sym again, and it should work.

4. It is also possible that you have unknowingly created an asymmetrical model at some point while you were working. This may have happened when you temporarily deactivated symmetry and then reactivated it. Or, for example it is possible to import a symmetrical model from an external app, then without turning on symmetry in 3D-Coat, you subdivided the model (assuming that the subdivision would be the same across the model). Unfortunately because some of the subdivision tools in 3D-Coat only work with triangulation, the subdivision may not have occurred symmetrically across the mesh. Then all further work will be asymmetrical from that moment onwards.

5. I have found that the grid-snapping functionality (with the 2D or 3D planes) in either perspective or orthographic view is not yet very reliable in 3D-Coat. As of right now, this is a fairly new feature, and I have discovered some bugs with it. If you used grid-snapping while you were working, you may have unknowingly caused asymmetry.

6. Sometimes while working in surface mode it is possible to "rip a hole" in your mesh. These holes can be nearly invisible and can cause loss of symmetry if not repaired immediately. There are several commands and tools available in 3D-Coat for repairing a torn mesh. These include (but are not limited to) the reconstruct, cleanclay, and closehole tools, and the Clean Surface command in the voxel menu. Once the holes have been repaired, I would recommend running the Vox Sym command to insure the mesh is exactly symmetrical again.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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I have a transform gizmo oriented properly and centred in the middle of an off-axis object. What I need to do is to align symmetry plane to gizmo's YZ axis in order to make a symmetrical copy of the sculpted part. I am however completely clueless on how to do it. There doesn't seem to be any tools that would allow for symmetry plane alignment, or even it's rotation. I only hope that some tricks exist, maybe via scripting?

Any ideas guys?

post-12523-0-34783200-1386540115_thumb.j

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  • 1 year later...
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Unfortunately it's been so long ago that I don't remember how I resolved this. I think I ended up re-importing the base shape at the origin and resculpting the whole object from scratch, but this time with symmetry. I think we could all benefit from a feature that would enable us to align the symmetry plane to current position and orientation of a transform gizmo.

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  • 7 months later...
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Unfortunately it's been so long ago that I don't remember how I resolved this. I think I ended up re-importing the base shape at the origin and resculpting the whole object from scratch, but this time with symmetry. I think we could all benefit from a feature that would enable us to align the symmetry plane to current position and orientation of a transform gizmo.

 BUMPY BUMP!

 

Does this exist yet? I've been trying to get the symmetry planes to align with an off-root object for about 30 minutes now. It knows how to align the pivot to centre mass, but the symmetry planes just refuse to budge. I know about the "pick" tool (side note: has the "press Tab to place" feature been removed?) but I've still yet to ever find an actual use for that, symmetry needs to be accurate!

 

The only workaround I've found is to use the Transform tool to get the pivot XYZ positions, and then paste the relevant data into the symmetry window (Via the "S" key)

 

This is insane, please tell me I'm missing something? I keep thinking I'm going crazy, how could I have used 3dc all this time and never noticed? Is it something you used to be able to do?

 

Send help!

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The only workaround I've found is to use the Transform tool to get the pivot XYZ positions, and then paste the relevant data into the symmetry window (Via the "S" key)

Unfortunately sometimes even this won't work.

Been there, seen that, got the scars... ;)

 

post-12523-0-95982800-1457655689_thumb.j

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