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Voxel painting / vertex colour channels


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#1 John Kearney

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:29 AM

Hi,

I have to create some 3D concept artwork (renders) in a relatively short amount of time and I'd like to use 3D Coat.

I've just experimented with painting a diffuse texture using the new polypaint feature and then exporting the model and that colour data into Max - it works/renders perfectly! However, I'm going to need more than one vertex colour channel and I'd like to know if 3D Coat currently supports this (unfortunately, I haven't found any relevant options/settings)?

I have found a way to get multiple vertex colour channels into Max but it involves exporting separate objects from 3D Coat and then copying/pasting map channels. This isn't ideal because it's pretty destructive - I don't think I'd be able to revisit the sculpting should I need to change anything due to the fact I'd be relying on several different models to give me the various vertex colour channels that I need for the renders (SSS, spec, diffuse, gloss etc etc).

If there is a solution, I'd be very thankful for the information or any other advice that the 3D Coat pros can offer me.

Cheers,
John

#2 The Candy-floss Kid

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 06:31 AM

Hi John, is that pure vertex painting color information you're exporting from the paint room on a voxel to triangulated mesh .obj export?
I had no idea this was possible so that's me of no use to you. My only familiarity is baking vertex paint to a retopo , an autopo or a lowered poly mesh re-import of the painted voxel form and exporting the subsequent maps from there

May I ask how are you doing this - your process of export?

Hopefully somebody a little more au fait can step in for you.I am sorry. In the meantime , I'll lead the way and ask the dumb questions :-)

#3 John Kearney

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 06:57 AM

Hey - thanks for the reply :)

After painting your voxel object in the paint room, it's possible to export it as a .fbx - import that into Max and the vertex colour information is retained. Once you're in Max, you simply open the Material Editor, choose the relevant map slot (in my case Diffuse), and then select the 'Vertex Colour' map option. Once you've done that, Max will render out the vertex colours as if you'd used a bitmap. It's obviously limited by your mesh resolution but if that's sufficient and you're short on time, it's a great solution due to the fact you don't have to bother with baking or UVs.

If 3D Coat allowed a user to export an object with multiple vertex colour maps, it'd be possible to paint all sorts of different maps (in my case, I needs a diffuse, sub-surface map, specular and gloss map) and still have the benefit of changing the mesh in 3D Coat without redoing a load of extra work (because 3D Coat does a pretty great job of allowing you to continue sculpting whilst retaining what it can of your colour info in a non-destructive way).

If it isn't possible to add multiple vertex colour channels to a single object right now then I believe it'd be an awesome extension. It's easy to rename map channels in Max and also easy to select them via the material editor so there's a lot of potential. Although many people retop for animation and the like, another option could involve using the high res poly-painted model in the render, and simply skin-wrapping it to a low-poly version that you animate with. Obviously depends on the job in hand but it's nice to have so many options!

Hope I've explained in enough detail.

Cheers,
John

#4 The Candy-floss Kid

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 03:05 PM

Ah .fbx http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FBX , many thanks John, yes you have explained it marvelously and I can see immediately through your illumination why such functionality is exciting. The concept of .fbx is new to me so thank you for taking the time to explain it.

I do hope some kind soul gives you a definite yea or nay with regard your questions on the deeper possibilities within vertex's painting functionality and export capabilities.
I suspect as it is only in first Beta release - the best is yet to come with regard serving the requirements you discuss.

Fascinating , thank you again and best wishes for your project.

One more question to confirm: this vertex paint color is exported with the .fbx file or does it need to be exported separately?

#5 3DArtist

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 07:21 PM

+1 for multiple vertex color maps, if possible.

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#6 digman

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 09:39 PM

+1 That is a really good request if possible...
@ The Candy-floss Kid
You can export an obj or Lwo model with the embedded vertex colors too from the vox-tree menu in the voxel room. The main problem with exporting vertex color in the exported model file is if your rendering application supports rendering embedded vertex colors. Some renderers do and others do not...

#7 The Candy-floss Kid

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 02:01 AM

@ The Candy-floss Kid
You can export an obj or Lwo model with the embedded vertex colors too from the vox-tree menu in the voxel room. The main problem with exporting vertex color in the exported model file is if your rendering application supports rendering embedded vertex colors. Some renderers do and others do not...


Much appreciated Digman , I'd taken a look earlier at achieving this in Lightwave inspired as I am by John's post but could not see how too - but perhaps there is a way?.
I had wondered if Blender or perhaps some other more affordable App had this facility ? The thought of it allowing for a freer flow creatively cheers me I must say.
I love rendering the vertex painted objects in 3DC but being able to expand this to create more ambitious scenes interests me very much also.

Can the new version of Modo handle such a task I wonder as I have an older version of that and already familiar with it?

As an undeniable pragmatic artistic feature +1 indeed

#8 Zeddicus

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:26 AM

@ The Candy-floss Kid

Modo allows users to paint vertex color maps so it should be able to render them too. Then again, maybe not. Taking a quick peek at the Luxology forum, I see geothefaust asked this questions already:

http://forums.luxolo...c.aspx?id=62357

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#9 The Candy-floss Kid

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 05:30 PM

@ The Candy-floss Kid

Modo allows users to paint vertex color maps so it should be able to render them too. Then again, maybe not. Taking a quick peek at the Luxology forum, I see geothefaust asked this questions already:

http://forums.luxolo...c.aspx?id=62357


Thank you Zeddicus much appreciated. So, no go in Modo either for imported vertex color info - so is it just Autodesk products to date that allow this .fbx function?

Is vertex paint color info an option with a broader range of apps if there with a Collada export - or is the issue that other apps are simply unable to read this vertex color - info that is non native to their own internal system of vertex coloring be that .fbx or collada?

If a Max, Maya, SoftImage user is looking could you post a test render of your results be that even on a simple sphere.

#10 digman

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:14 AM

@ The Candyfloss-Kid
You metioned Lightwave. It is very easy to render your vertex colors in lightwave. I have version 8 but I think the interface is still close.
The picture shows you how. You have to export a Lightwave file from 3DCoat for it to work. No uv maps needed.

Surface Editor (Picture is from the scene set-up section of lightwave)
Advanced Tab
You should see the Vertex Color Map tab down in the list of tabs
Choose Vertex Color from the drop down box.
You are ready to render.
Have fun...

It is a crummy render but only it's only to show you how it works.

Attached Thumbnails

  • LW vertex colors.jpg

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#11 The Candy-floss Kid

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 12:34 AM

@ The Candyfloss-Kid
You metioned Lightwave. It is very easy to render your vertex colors in lightwave. I have version 8 but I think the interface is still close.
The picture shows you how. You have to export a Lightwave file from 3DCoat for it to work. No uv maps needed.


Bless you Good Sir!! Huston we have lift off. I'm off to give it a whirl.


Success , sweet success thank you so much Digman!!

One observation I overlooked with LWO and that is, lowering the poly count on export diminishes the quality of the painted results.
Attached are two detailed areas - the lower quality one on the left being somewhere in the 80% region of poly reduction - the better one, on the right , a 32% reduction. This quality was good enough I thought around the 30% region in this case. I'm looking forward to seeing how Lightwave can handle a more complex scene from here or whether the weight of high rez meshes will slow matters down too much and in which case it's back to retopo and uv's again. But either way having this option is very exciting . Thank you John for pointing this possibility out with your initial post and thank you Andrew for this great feature.

Sharpness of the combined voxel layer form detail was captured as a merge visible from voxel layers - this layer was then increased in resolution , the voxels cleared from the layer - then repeat of the right click> "merge visible" operation - after that >right click "bake color there from all volumes" from there exported as a lwo from the paint room with the vertex color, vox.mtl imported with the LWO when brought into Layout.


pod_body.jpg

#12 digman

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 04:48 AM

Good to hear you got it working...
I would say that vertex color painting is great for rendering stills but animation would require retopoing and uvs. Backgrounds could be pre-rendered then used of course and there is Instancing too.

#13 carlosan

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Posted 06 July 2014 - 02:36 PM

any1 knows how to do a vertex map inside 3DC ?

http://www.neilblevi...ex_map_wear.htm

 

i need this map to finish mi actual model...

 

ty

 

----------------------------

0001535: Multiple vertex color maps channels

http://3d-coat.com/m...iew.php?id=1535

 

any +1 is welcome






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